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OutNow.CH在威尼斯电影节对宫崎骏的访问
2005.8.9
翻译：icytear
所有翻译均为动画爱好者交流所用，版权归原作者及所属媒体所有
翻译部分未经允许，请勿转载.
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2005年威尼斯电影节上，OutNow.CH采访了宫崎骏先生。这位出色的动画导演1963年在东映动画开始了自己的职业生涯。他的成名作是1984年那部取材于自己原创漫画作品的《风之谷》。风之谷的成功让他有资金和伙伴高田一同创办了属于自己的工作室－－并用二战时期意大利飞机之名“吉卜力”为它命名－－吉卜力意为吹过撒哈拉的风。尽管他的作品在本土获得了巨大成功，然而在西方，很长一段时间他的名字仅仅为日本动漫FANS和内部人士知晓。然而，随着《幽灵公主》，特别是获得2003年奥斯卡大奖的《千与千寻》的出现，这种情况彻底改变了。宫崎骏的最新一部作品是《哈尔的移动城堡》。
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译者注：根据OutNow.CH英文原文所说，在采访宫崎骏时候，他们和英文翻译的沟通发生问题，所以采访内容的英文版本会有些难理解，而现在的中文版本就更可想而知了。OutNow.CH is sorry，so am I。
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问：获得威尼斯荣誉金狮奖对您有何意义呢？为什么您来这里领奖而没有为《千与千寻》到柏林领取金熊奖，也没有去领奥斯卡奖呢？
答：我讨厌坐在那里担心自己到底有没有得奖。在这儿我已经很确定的知道自己会得奖，所以我就来了。（停顿了一下）。事实上是马克·穆勒（译者注：威尼斯电影节Chairman） 坚持（让我来的），所以我只好投降了。（大笑）
问：您一直被称为“日本动画之神”。拥有这样的地位，您还可能过普通人的生活吗？
答：（眼珠子转了转）在步入老年的早期，我过着相当普通的生活。购物，吃饭，还常常去咖啡馆。
问：关于您的书籍和纪录片有很多。您也会偶尔看一看吗？
答：首先，我没有那个兴趣，所以我不会去看。我过着很平静的生活。我觉得自己读的不多。极个别的情况下，我会读一读批评家撰写的关于我的书籍。但通常每次读的时候，我都有站起来揍他们的冲动。然而，我还是不够力气啊。
问：为什么想揍他们啊？
答：他们根本不理解我，他们不理解。
问：您感受到来自其他人的竞争吗？
答：怀着平静的心态是不会去看别人的作品的。我不看电影电视，所以可以不让（别人的作品）在我的生活中留下影子。我对那不感兴趣。我宁肯散散步，看看周围的风景。
问：您和日本年轻一代电影工作者关系如何？在这个舞台上您有时会感到寂寞吗？
答：我从来感觉不到你说的那种孤单。但是我有时喜欢通过电影来吸收他们的新鲜血液。至于影响，我一直对一位漫画家说：“来工作吧”－－说了20年，但是他仍旧没有来。所以我觉得我对年轻画家的影响力不是很大。
问：那种充满对世界的真实感觉的动画，我是说不掺杂数字技术的动画，是一门老成的艺术。您觉得它在您这一代就会灭亡吗？还是会有新的天才出现呢？
答：我们这样的动画不多了。新一代人只对3D感兴趣，所以这种传统的形式可能会灭亡，是的。
问：您觉得传统的动画形式有什么特别之处吗？
答：在动画中，你用你的画笔绘制。在动笔之前，你并不知道下一笔会是什么。仿佛你是在沿途创造着。这些小创造就是我热爱动画的真正原因。（我热爱）这整个过程。然而对于3D形式的动画，从一开始一切就已经被设计好了。
比如，有这样一个场景，场景中的人物要向这边走来（他用他的打火机比划着）。我们知道他应该从这里开始，到那里停下――我们已经知道他的路径。所以我把这些已经计划好的东西用动画的形式表现出来。
另一方面，你觉得，他可能到不了那个地方。于是我们说：啊，那个人过不来了，我们该怎么办呢？所以我们不得不修改剧本，可能有很多不同的路径，有很多不同的结局，这让二维动画变得很有意思。否则，只是绘制那些设计好的动作会让这项工作很枯燥。当然，我先制作脚本，分发给所有的绘画师，之后再检查他们的工作，这时候我意识到自己犯了错误。你会发现让某人从这里开始到那里停步是个错误。所以也许你可以在3D中作修改，但如果这样作，成本可能会更高。
作二维动画就像在你内心搜寻那隐藏着的故事，让它们从你的笔尖流出。所以当你提笔时，你不能刻意为之。所以我的员工中有90％都是错的（大笑）。但是也有一些画家在运用他们的潜意识。但很不幸的是，这样的人还不太多。正如我一开始说的，这是因为他们目睹了太多虚拟的现实世界，他们已经投降了。所以现在，动画是一门垂暮的事业。
问：您为什么倾向于传统的动画形式呢？
答：首先，我对3D动画形式没兴趣。凡事我们也引进了很多3D形式。事实上我认为我们用的太多了，我们是应该用铅笔和纸张的。
问：您认为皮克斯工作室和他们的作品怎么样呢？
答：我觉得约翰雷斯特（译者注：皮克斯著名导演，代表作《玩具总动员》）正在进行一项伟大的事业。我从不会让他去做二维动画，他也不会让我去做3D。我们都紧守自己的阵地。但是我很担心他的健康状况。他工作太辛苦了。我是带着妻子来到威尼斯的，但是通常情况下，我也是个工作狂。我生活的全部就是工作，工作，再工作，我没有顾及我的家庭，我的子女。我让妻子代替我做了所有这一切。但是约翰雷斯特虽然工作很繁忙，他却是一个好父亲，他在爱好方面也投入了大量的时间。他工作的时间是我的五倍还多，所以我很担心他的健康。
问：在您所有的作品中都有一种生态意识的主题。您对自然状况很关注吗？您是在用您的故事向观众传达一种信息吗？
答：我不是通过电影传达环保信息。但是，我觉得生态很重要，这是我各人价值观的一部分，所以这个问题就在我的电影中呈现出来。
问：您对欧洲有什么看法呢？
答：我们制作过《阿尔卑斯山的少女海蒂》、《红猪》还有《哈尔的移动城堡》，这些片子都是以欧洲为背景的。在成长过程中，我们读的欧洲文学故事可能比日本的还要多。我们涉猎了许多不同国家的作品，俄国的，法国的，英国的。这些影响融合到了一起，有时候我甚至记不清到底是从哪里来的。我们被欧洲的美术、音乐和电影深深的影响着。这些影响让我不想把我的电影局限在日本。还有很多我感兴趣的地方。我就是想要创造那些我想要创造的东西。
有很多关于电影关于日本的理念是我想要表达的。但由于日本的现代化，所有的一切都变的很含糊了。在这些故事中想要找到真正的日本化事物实在很困难。我觉得我没有按照自己想要的方式描绘一个真正的日本。但是我想制作一部电影，重现妈妈讲述的故事，重现日本古老的贫民生活――这是个艰难的工作。由于日本的现代化，很多文学作品都仅仅描述了那种人们由于现代化而不得不表达的苦难。但是其中也是有幸福快乐的，积极的方面也影响了日本的生活，但几乎没有表达这些内容的文学作品。这也是为什么做这样一部电影很困难，因为没有足够的资料，所以我们只能自己创造，也还没有想好。另外的问题是，我们没有足够的天才式人物来表达这些理念。
问：您对传统价值观在日本的泯灭有什么看法呢？您觉得这是因为现代化吗？
答：现代化的不计其数的恶劣方面已经被很多人讨论过了。但是我们不得不考虑未来。我想做的就是更深层次的挖掘植根在日本人脑海中那古老、诚实的自然价值观。 我觉得即使按照今天的生活方式，已经有很多传统价值被丢掉，那些价值观仍然存在于孩子们的心中。这就是为什么我想要延伸到孩子们的思想，只有这样，我们才能触及他们。
问：听说您在诗歌和文学方面也有发展。这些对您的电影产生了什么影响呢？
答：那些只是爱好罢了（大笑）。还有其他的爱好，我在这儿都不能跟你说呢。
问：当您着手一项新工作，什么是首要的呢？是画面还是故事情节？
答：当然是画面。我们要让故事情节与画面相符合（笑）。但是也有些时候我发现我想用某个画面，但随即意识到故事情节不是这样的，所以只好不了了之。
问：所以那是不可预测的……
答：是，在实际操作之前，没有人知道什么是最首要的。
问：新作品在创作中吗？
答：现在，我正在创作三部仅在东京吉卜力三鹰之森美术馆放映的动画短片。三部片子是同时着手制作的，大约花了我们一年的事件。所以制作人对财政问题很担心（笑）。但我想这三部片子会很棒的。
问：片子是关于什么呢？
答：我不知道意大利有没有水蜘蛛这种小动物。故事就是关于这样一只生活在水底的水蜘蛛－－他坠入爱河了。蜘蛛用身体后部的“物理肺”呼吸，所以他到水面的时候只能带上一个空气泡泡，然后再回到水底，好像用水底呼吸器一样。但是关于新片我不想说的太多。
问：这部片子的灵感是从哪里来的呢？
答：是一部连环画，描述一只生活在水底的蜘蛛。那部连环画真的是深深的印在我的脑海中。
注释：关于“水蜘蛛”，有兴趣的可以看一下。
蜘蛛是一种典型的陆栖动物。但水蜘蛛（又叫银蜘蛛）是其同类的唯一叛逆者——生活在水的世界。当它们潜入水中时，全身长满的防水绒毛就会附着许多气泡，犹如进入了一个空气层封闭的套子里。这奇特的气罩使水蜘蛛成了一个水银球，光彩照人。偶尔，它们还会用腹部的未端探出水面，托起一个大气泡招摇过市。水蜘蛛善于在水生植物之间吐丝结网。由于在网下储存气泡，使原本开展的蛛网成了钟罩形，如同一个小型沉箱，它们便在沉箱里安营扎寨，雌蛛还在其中产卵孵化。水蜘蛛听拥有的气泡群不仅是储氧器，还是一种制氧器——能不断地从周围的水中吸取氧。这就是人们称之为“物理肺”的供氧装置。水蜘蛛在呼吸过程中使气泡中的氧浓度逐渐下降，一旦氧含量低于16% 时，溶于水中的氧便会自行补充进气泡内来。通常蜘蛛处于休息状态时，物理肺足以保证供氧；当耗氧量过大，水中含氧的气泡补充就会供不应求，而气泡内的其他气体的比例就会随之上升，直至大大超过在空气中的比例为止。结果是氮开始向水中扩散，而气泡的容积也会相应变小（由于氧被耗尽），最终，蜘蛛不得不再次抛头露面于水上、重新为储氧器充氧。
 设计台词：英雄寂寥吗？
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英文原文：
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OutNow.CH met with Hayao Miyazaki at the Venice Filmfestival in 2005. The most successful maker of anime films started his career in 1963 at Studio Toei. His first major hit was Nausica? based on his own manga series in 1984. With the money he was able to found his own film studio together with his colleague Isao Takahata. He named it "Studio Ghibli" after an Italian plane in WW2, that got its name from a wind blowing in the Sahara dessert.
In spite of major success with his work back home Hayao Miyazaki was known only to fans and insiders of Japanese Animation in the West for a long time. This changed with Mononoke Hime and especially Spirited Away for which he won an Oscar in 2003. His newest film is called Howl's Moving Castle.
OutNow.CH (ON): How important was it for you to get this Golden Lion in Venice? Why did you come here and not to Berlin to get the Golden Bear for Spirited away or to Los Angeles to get the Oscar?
Hayao Miyazaki (HM): I hate sitting and worrying wheather I get a prize or not. Here I knew for sure that I would get the award and that is why I came. (Pause) Actually Marco Müller was very persisting so I gave up. (laughs)
ON: You are often called "The God of Japanese Animation". Is it still possible to lead a normal life with such a status?
HM: (He rolls his eyes) I live a life of a very common man in his early senior years. I go shopping, also food, and I often go to local coffee shops.
ON: There are a lot of books and documentaries about you. Do you sometimes read parts of them?
HM: First of all, I don't have internet, so I can not. I live a peaceful live. I do not think that I read many. On very rare occasions I have read books about me written by critics. But usually, when I read them, I want to go up and punch them. But I would be too weak anyway.
ON: Why do you want to punch them?
HM: They just do not understand me, they do not get it.
ON: Do you feel any competition with the other creators?
HM: A peaceful heart does not look at the other peoples' work. Because I do not watch film or TV, I can go without anything visual in my life. I am not interested. For me I prefer walking and looking at the scenery around me.
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ON: How are you related to the younger movie makers in Japan? Do you feel sometimes lonely in this scene?
HM: I never feel the solitude, the lonliness you are talking about. But sometimes I do feel like sucking on their life blood by making films. Regarding influence: There is this one animator I have been telling for twenty years: Come to work. And he still does not come to work. So I think I do not have a lot of influence on the younger artists.
ON: Animation in a true sense of the word, I mean not consisting of digital ones and zeros, is a very ageing art. Do you feel that it is going to disappear with your generation, or are there any new talents?
HM: There are not many of our kind anymore. The new generation is only interested in 3D-Animation. So the old style might disappear, yes.
ON: What do you think is special about the traditional style of animation?
HM: In animation you draw with your pencil very many drawings. It is not, that you already know in the beginning, which line you are going to draw. It is like your discovering them on the way. All these little discoveries is why I am really interested in animation. The whole process. While with the other one, it is all decided from the beginning.
Let us say, that there is a scene with a character, which has to walk towards here (he shows it with his lighter). We know he is going to start here and that he needs to end up here. So we already know, where he is going. So I am going to animate something that is already decided.
Or the other way is, you think, maybe he cannot reach this place. And let us say, the man will not be able to go there: What do we do? We have to change the story line. There might be some different routes, different possibilities that will open up. That makes 2D-animation interesting. Or you can make it boring, by just drawing the predecided actions. Of course, I do story boards and I hand them out to all my animators to work on them and then after that, I am checking the animations and I realise that I made a mistake. You discover that it was a mistake to have this person start here and end up there. So maybe you can change this in 3D to, but if you do that, it probably is going to cost much more.
Doing 2D-animation is just like searching and finding the line, that is inside you and let it come up to your pencil. So while you are using a pencil, you should not use your consciousness. So ninety percent of my staff is wrong (laughs). But there are a few painters that use their subconsciousness. But unfortunately we have not find a lot of those yet. Because, as I said earlier, they have seen too much virtual reality and they all surrended. So animation is a very senior age industry now.
ON: Why do you prefer traditional animation to the CGI-Animation?
HM: First I do not feel attracted to that visual style. But we took in a lot of 3D-animation. Actually I think, we brought in to many. We should use a pencil and paper.
ON: What do you think of Pixar Studios and their films?
HM: I think John Lasseter is doing a great job. I would never tell him to do 2D and he never tells me to do 3D. We both stay in our own territories. But I am worried about his health. He is working way too much. Coming to Venice I brought my wife, but usually I am very workaholic. All I did was work, work, work and I did not take care of my home, of my children. I let my wife do all this. But John Lasseter he is busy with work, he is a good father, he even puts a lot of time in his hobby. So he works five times more than I do, and that is why I am worried about his health.
ON: There is a theme of ecological concern in all of your movies. Are you concerned about the state of nature and do you use your stories to give the audience a message?
HM: I do not make films to send out messages about ecology. But because I feel ecology is important, because it is part of my personal values, the problem comes up in my films.
ON: What can you tell us about Europe?
HM: We made Heidi, we made Porco Rosso, we made Howl's Moving Castle. All these were set in Europe. We probably read more European than Japanese literature growing up. We read so much from different countries, Russia, France, Great Britain. So all these Influences get mixed up. Sometimes I even do not remember where they came from. We were influenced by art, music and films from Europe. Because of all these influences we receive I do not want to stick my films just to Japan. There are a lot of other places which I am interested in. I just want to make, what I feel I want to make.
There are some ideas about films about Japan that I would like to make. But because of modernism in Japan everything became very ambigous. And it is really hard to find the really japanese things within these stories. I do not feel like I made a film that really portrayed Japan the way I wanted too. But I would like to make a film about a story my mother told me, about old slum life in Japan. But it is a very difficult project. Because of the modernism, that came to Japan, there is a lot of Japanese literature that portrays only the suffering, that people had to express because of this modernism. But there is also joy, the happiness, the positive side that was brought into Japanese life, and there is almost no literature about it. And this is, why it is so hard to make a film, because there is not enough material, so we have to invent it all by ourselves, there are no ideas yet. The other problem is, we do not have enough talents that come up whith these ideas.
ON: How do you feel about the loss of traditional values in Japan? Do you think it is because of this modernism?
HM: A lot of bad aspects of the modernism have been discussed by lot of people. But we have to think about the future. What I would like to do, is dig in deeper in the old, authentic native values that are embedded in the memory of mankind in Japan. I think they are still there in the memories of children's hearts, even though in todays lifestyles a lot of traditional values might have been lost. And that is why I want to reach out for childrens thoughts, that we will be able to touch upon them.
ON: I have heard that you work also in poetry and architecture. How does that influence your films?
HM: That's just a hobby (laughs). There are other hobbies, I can not even tell you about here.
ON: When you are working on a new project: What comes first, the images or the story?
HM: Of course the images comes first. We make the story work to make that imagery (laughs) But there are some moments when I find out that I wanted to use this image. But then I realise, the story does not work this way and I end up with nothing.
ON: So it is unpredictable?
HM: Yes, you do not know, what comes out until you actually make it.
ON: Are you working on a new movie?
HM: Right now, I am working on three short animation movies, that will only be screened in the Ghibli-Museum in Tokyo. We made those simultaneously and it took us one year to make these shorts. So the producer is really anxious about the money part (laughs). But I think they are going to be good.
ON: What are they about?
HM: I do not know, if this bug exists in Italy. It is about a water spider, which is underneath the water that falls in love. The spider breathes with his derriere. So he has to come to the surface, attaches a airbubble and then he goes down again like with an aqualung. But I do not want to tell to much about it.
ON: Where did you find the inspiration for that one?
HM: It was a small comic strip, that portrayed a spider, that lives in the water. It really stuck in my memory.
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