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[宫崎骏访谈及其相关] [原创][翻译]带着纯真和启示的日本梦想家--Nigel Andrews对宫崎骏的访问

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画馆特别贡献奖

发表于 2005-10-16 10:57:06 |显示全部楼层

带着纯真和启示的日本梦想家

-Nigel Andrews对宫崎骏的访问

Japan's visionary of innocence and apocalypse

2005.9.20

翻译:volvo 校对:icytear

所有翻译均为动画爱好者交流所用,版权归原作者及所属媒体所有

翻译部分未经允许,请勿转载.

.

.

在威尼斯影展的最后一个午后,我们所在的盛大的颁奖大厅淹没在难以计量的长时间的鼓掌声中。是三次?是四次?我很想试着打个电话给吉尼斯世界记录问问曾经有哪一位导演在电影节中得到过如此多的称赞和尊敬。
日本动画大师宫崎骏在64岁时捧得金狮奖终生成就奖。他不再仅仅是日本最受欢迎的电影制作者――正是在那片土地上,《幽灵公主》和《千与千寻》相继刷新了本土电影票房记录――而现在,他已经在世界范围内达到半神的地位。《千与千寻》(2002)获得了奥斯卡奖,《幽灵公主》(1997)在当时成为风靡一时的DVD,《风之谷》(1985)在威尼斯放映时受到了狂热的追捧,放映中有四次观众与评委长时间起立鼓掌与欢呼。
和披头士的FANS们一样,宫崎骏的追随者们眼中总是闪烁着奇特的梦幻般的神采。他的动画作品不仅仅只是针对孩子们或是圣诞节。作品中混合了华美的故事叙述,激进向上的主题(反战,个人修养提高)和接近梦幻的故事刻画,所有的这一切在全球都是独特的――尽管在地球的另一端迪斯尼和梦工厂正打的不可开交。
迪斯尼明了这位日本魔术师的价值,于是买下了宫崎骏的电影版权在西方放映。宫崎骏的最新电影"哈尔的移动城堡"本周将在英国放映。这是片子的"宫式风格"从镜头一瞥就可以一眼看出――一个具有过分哥特式风格的带着冒着烟的烟囱,竖立着的大炮和小鸡般的脚似的支撑装置的可移动的城堡。电影的开始是一个童话般的故事:一个小女孩变成了一个老婆婆,然后一位英俊的少年也就是城堡的主人便成了她的救星。影片的高潮是在一场世界末日之战(场景跟幽灵公主和风之谷相似),炸弹,奇袭战和空中战斗机纷纷出动。到此为止这些内容已经远离了儿童小说家戴安娜.韦恩.琼斯的原创作品。
这些情景,包括带有飞机战斗的情景,灵感大概是来源宫崎骏的父亲吧?因为他的父亲在二战期间经营着一家飞机零件工厂。但宫崎骏说:"这些情景的设置与父亲毫不相关",他以前也是这样逃避话题,"我加入了空中战斗机只是把它们作为现代主义毁灭性的象征。"
宫崎骏接受采访时总是聊到立体派艺术家米开朗基罗的作品。但是不知何故在威尼斯的旅馆我已经可以作为观众与宫崎骏见面,大概有人曾经告诉他我给了《千与千寻》很高的评价吧。在这寂静的威尼斯我采访到了这位伯父级的白发艺术家,他就象天上那勤快的穿梭于枝头的猫头鹰,一如他的动画人生。有一种东西――毋宁说是愤怒渗透在《哈尔的移动城堡》的点点滴滴,显然就是伊拉克战争的写照!
"当我们开始创作这部片子时,伊拉克战争已经打响,所以这对我们有很大的影响"。这就解释了,虽然宫崎骏把主题扩展到了环境破坏,并坚持把这些极端元素加入到电影中,有时从孩童般的幻想到不加掩饰的讽刺还是有惊人的情绪变化。
"我们反复的被自然,环境和地球疏远仿佛是现代主义的宿命,但是我们还是尝试一次一次地重拾,这就象一个循环。当孩子们一降落在这世上的同时,自然已经深深地扎根他们的心灵。所以我想做的就是叩开他们的心门。"
询问他的影响力时你会了解到溶入到他作品中的纯真和启示。那些影响力包括对苏联动漫的影响和拥有法国极高荣誉,以及隐含的《动物农庄》。跟乔治奥威尔一样,宫崎骏也是一位改良马克思主义者。有一天他看着未来,还有马克思主义在近代更加丑恶的实践――然后发觉原来马克思主义根本没有被实践。所以他开始创造自己的未来与过去。
我觉得是从教条主义中的觉醒是至关重要的。对教条、说教的憎恨可能就是为什么他拒绝对他作品的咬文嚼字。举一个例,关于《千与千寻》有一个有争议的观点,就是废弃的主题公园预示着日本的工业衰退。"我没有打算描写日本,虽然我也关注了地球的衰落和污染。但是对生活在现代的孩子们来说这已经是个事实,根本不需要给他们指出。我想做的是告诉孩子们怎样好好地生活在这现实中。"(过去对《千与千寻》的一种字斟句酌的评述,就是那个苛严的汤婆婆的灵感来源于现实生活中的Margaret Thatcher。宫崎骏大笑起来,"我们日本偶尔也有那种强壮的发髻高竖的女性吧。"那时候他并没有否认。)
当一位艺术家让自己的作品被全世界接受时,那各个国家加入了他们自己的迷恋情绪,总是想要和他的作品攀亲他就一点也不会奇怪。例如一直坚强的探询自己生活的小女孩是宫崎骏电影里的女主角,就象绿野仙踪里面的爱丽丝。"我喜欢刘易斯卡洛尔的作品,所以我确信那渗透到我的作品里。我已经深受很多艺术家影响而且这些影响都会从我的电影里流露出来,当然有我喜爱的卡洛尔。"
我详述卡洛尔是因为我知道没有任何一位幻想作家和艺术家能比宫崎骏有天赋,他能把兔子洞,茶会,毒蘑菇这些平凡的事物变得梦一般特别。在《千与千寻》开始的场景里,一家人驱车寻找新家被一座无法克服的大墙,怪诞的草原和其他障碍物所拦,只有一条发了霉的隧道可以穿过。这个场景其实是一种催眠状态,但是宫崎骏却声称这是个意外。
"我最初有一个更好的想法,而且更加精细,但是它内容太长了,花费也太大。所以我那些剧本都扔进了垃圾桶。我们需要想办法作出简洁的但是仍然有相同效果的故事情节。"
难道他把自己的梦想当作取材来源?"也没有。但是当我开车行使到一个拐弯处的时候或是在灵感快要消失的时候,我脑子里就浮现出一些梦一般的东西,但是那时是很危险的,一旦你打开了藏在你脑子里的小匣子时,你就不容易关上它!"
大脑也有她自己的想法。十年前它就"迫使"宫崎骏制作了他的第一部杰作---《幽灵公主》。"我不想做的,但是我的大脑好象非要我做似的。我的想法告诉我,如果我不抓住这些灵感,我的观众――孩子们就不会再信任我了。过程很艰苦。"--据说宫崎骏不分昼夜地工作持续了两年多-"但是看起来那些艰苦是赋予作品价值的关键。我抛弃了所有关于娱乐的常规观念,我甚至可以确定没有人会来看这部电影,吉卜力工作室将会关门!许多成年人都看不懂电影讲了什么,而相反的孩子们看了后会立即说到'噢,这太简单了'。"
但是现在不仅仅是在日本,孩子都是在插画小说中长大的。漫画在日本是一种核心流行文化形式。宫崎骏进行了亲身实践,但是现在他对该形式的作用感到矛盾。"我认为它是一个传播心中的渴望和复杂的想法的极好媒介,可以达到人最灵魂深处。它很能传播情感气氛,但是它在表述时间和空间上远离了现实,因为时间和空间已经被扭曲了。通过漫画来看世界是不合适的,不准确的。有这样一种感觉,不仅是在日本,整个世界的年轻人们今天都过着轻率而根基浅薄的生活。"
你不用非得钻得太深从宫崎骏的根源去发觉这个充满激情的传统主义者,即使你是个激进分子。当我问他对象史莱克这类的西方动画电影的看法时,他总是回避说:"我没有看过动画电影,所以我不知道当今动画的局势如何。"他把所有的精力都放在了他所钟爱的二维动画。
"这还不会结束,我会继续的。我的助手们跟我一样在慢慢地变老,我们确实老了很多,(说着他咯咯的笑了)但是我们不会绝望。
至于电脑,"用过之后我的工作量增加了,而且还要花费更多的时间和金钱。拿画笔和坐在电脑显示器前的人们在交流方面也有很多问题。在吉卜力我们尝试约束自己保持河蟹关系,即使如此有时也会出现不稳定的局面!但是对我来说最重要的是保持用手和用电脑的比例,现在我已经学会平衡两者而且作出来的仍然是二维动画。"
我们从外部看事物总觉得比真实要好看。他的作品充满了近乎奢侈的巨大的想象,融合了童真与成长。事实证明了只要能与人们的欢乐,悲哀,梦想和激情相伴,没有一种艺术形式(那怕是传统的)会过时的。

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英文原文:

On the last afternoon of the Venice Film Festival we in the Sala Grande lost count of the standing ovations. Was that three? Or four? We thought of making a call to the Guinness Book of Records. Had any director at any festival ever been more lauded - or more exactly lionised - at one go?


Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki, at a beaming 64, was collecting a Golden Lion for Career Achievement. No longer just the most popular filmmaker in Japan - where Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away became in turn the highest-grossing homemade films in history - this man has taken on semi-divine status worldwide. Spirited Away (2002) won an Oscar. Mononoke (1997) is a cult DVD. Nausicaa and the Valley of the Winds (1985) was cheered with nearly demented rapture when revived at Venice, cueing that fourth standing ovation.

Miyazaki followers have a strange, trippy light in their eyes like bygone Beatlemanes. His animation features are not just for kids or Christmas. Their blend of storytelling richness, radical themes (anti-militarism, eco-consciousness) and near-psychedelic imagery are unique even in a world on whose other side Disney and DreamWorks fight like cartoon Titans.

Disney knows this Japanese wizard's worth: it buys up his films for the west. His newest opens in the UK this week. The "Miyazakiness" of Howl's Moving Castle is recognisable from the first appearance of the title pile, a gothic-rococo folly with belching chimneys, bristling cannons and chicken-leg support limbs. (Take Terry Gilliam and add Hieronymus Bosch.) The movie begins as a fairy tale about a girl changed into a witch and the handsome castle-owner who may become her saviour - though with typical comic iconoclasm Miyazaki's hero is hopelessly vain, especially about good and bad hair days. It climaxes in an Armageddon war (heir to similar scenes in Nausicaa and Mononoke) involving bombs, blitzkriegs and aerial fighting-machines. By then it is a long way from the original children's novel by Diana Wynne Jones.

Are these scenes, as some have hazarded, a working-out of Miyazaki's feelings about his father, who ran an aircraft parts factory in the second world war? "It has nothing to do with that," the director says, as if he has parried the question before. "I put the fighter aircraft there as a symbol of destructiveness, of modernism."

Miyazaki gives interviews about as often as Michelangelo painted Cubist pictures. But I have somehow been accorded an audience at Venice's Hotel Des Bains. (Did someone tell him I gave Spirited Away six stars out of five?) Amid the Death in Venice surroundings I ask the avuncular white-haired artist, who resembles a celestial owl beaming affably from a branch, about life in animation. One thing that poured life into Howl's Moving Castle - or anger - was apparently the Iraq war.

"When we began work on the film the war had just begun. So it had a big influence on us." That explains the sometimes startling mood-changes from children's fantasy to savage satire, though Miyazaki, broadening the topic to eco-destructiveness, insists that such extremes are linked.

"It is the fate of modernism that we repeatedly lose touch with nature, the environment, the planet. But we try to regain it again and again. It's like a circle. In children's hearts and souls when they're born into the world, nature already exists deep inside them. So what I want to do in my work is tap into their souls."

Ask him about his influences and you get another clue to the blend of innocence and apocalypse in his work. Those influences include Soviet animation, a little-seen French feature with an elite reputation (Paul Grimault's The Shepherdess and the Chimneysweep) and, revealingly, Animal Farm. Like George Orwell, Miyazaki is a reformed Marxist. He looked at the future one day - or recent history's uglier experiments towards it - and saw it didn't work. So he started inventing his own futures and pasts.

The dis**ment with doctrinaire politics is, I suspect, crucial. A hatred of the didactic and prescriptive may be why he rejects allegorical literalism in responses to his work: for instance the oft-mooted notion that Spirited Away, with its abandoned theme park, is about Japan's industrial decay. "I did not intend to depict Japan, though I am concerned about the decay and pollution of the Earth. But those are already a reality for children who live in the modern age. They don't need it pointed out. What I want to do is help to show children how we should live in this reality." (In passing, I cannot resist pressing one literalist interpretation regarding Spirited Away. The formidable Yubaba, the sternly coiffed woman who runs the bath-house frequented by gods, is surely inspired by her real-life spitting image Margaret Thatcher? Miyazaki bursts into laughter. "Occasionally we have strong, steely-haired women in Japan too!" No denial then.)

When an artist's magic circles the globe he cannot be surprised if each country brings its own obsessions, petitioning for a share in the parenthood. For instance, the tenaciously enquiring little girl who is heroine of so many Miyazaki films seems a none-too-distant cousin of Alice in Wonderland. "I love Lewis Carroll's work, so I'm sure that seeps into my films. I've been affected by many artists and all these influences come out in my work. But yes, Carroll I love."

I dwell on Carroll because I know of no other fantasy author or artist before Miyazaki so gifted at taking the ordinary - a rabbit hole, a tea party, a toadstool - and making it extraordinary, dreamlike. In the opening scene of Spirited Away a family driving in search of its new home pulls up in front of a big blank wall, sinisterly plain and obstructive, with nothing but a narrow mouldy tunnel as the way through. The scene is utterly hypnotic. But Miyazaki claims it was an accident.

"I had what I first thought was a better idea, much more elaborate. But it was too long and too expensive. So I threw all the storyboards into the garbage bin. We went with something simpler, but it worked."

Does he use his own dreams as source material? "I don't rely on them. But when I'm driven into a corner or I'm at the end of my inspiration, my brain does seem to bring out something dreamlike. But it is dangerous. Once you open that little box under your brain, you can't easily close it!"

The brain has - so to speak - a mind of its own. A decade ago it compelled Miyazaki to make Princess Mononoke, his first masterpiece. "I didn't want to make it, but it was as if I had to. My mind told me, if I don't grapple with that, the children who are my audience will never trust me again. There was a lot of suffering" - Miyazaki is said to have worked every day for over two years - "but it seemed that the suffering was the key to giving the work value. I chucked out all conventional ideas of entertainment. I was sure nobody would come to see the film, that it would end Studio Ghibli [his animation company]! And lots of adults didn't seem to understand what it was about, whereas children said immediately 'Oh it's so easy.'"

But children, not least in his own country, are raised on the shorthand of graphic fiction. The manga (comic strip) is a core pop-culture form in Japan. Miyazaki himself has practised it, though today he is ambivalent about its effect. "I think it's an excellent medium for expressing deep desires and complex feelings, for going to the bottom of people's souls. It's good at conveying an emotional aura. But it's also very distant from portraying reality, from representing time and space, because it distorts them. Those who see the world through manga are not looking at it properly or accurately. It goes with a feeling that, not just in Japan but round the world, many youngpeople today live light and shallow-rooted lives."

You do not have to delve too deep into Miyazaki's own root system to discover a passionate traditionalist. Even a Luddite. While avoiding comment on any of the western animated features like Shrek on which I ask his opinion - "I don't watch animated films, so I don't know what the state of world animation is" - he vigorously rallies to the side of his beloved 2D animation.

"It has not ended. It will continue. My staff is growing old with me - we are ageing quite a lot (chuckle) - but I have no despair."

As for computers: "By using them I now have more work and find they require even more time and money. And there are a lot of communication problems between artists who use pen and paintbrush and those who sit in front of monitors. At Ghibli we try to restrain ourselves and keep the peace, even though it can be an unstable situation! But it's very important for me to retain the right ratio between working by hand and computer. I have learnt that balance now, how to use both and still be able to call my films 2D."

We in the outside world call them something more flattering. Works from a prodigal, prodigious imagination. Unsurpassed blends of the childlike and grownup. And proof that no form, however traditional, is out of date so long as it has a practitioner in touch with people's deepest joys, fears, dreams and passions.


[此贴子已经被桃夭于2006-5-10 21:24:46编辑过]

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发表于 2005-10-16 11:11:35 |显示全部楼层

不错不错!!

云的彼端,梦想的地方....
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画馆元老

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画馆音乐天才奖

发表于 2005-10-16 23:33:42 |显示全部楼层

哇,翻译了好长的一段哦

真是辛苦了啊,在鹅的领导下,翻译组真是能人辈出,越来越壮大了啊

可喜可贺,可喜可贺

大家加油咯!~

[em20][em20][em20]

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发表于 2005-10-18 21:49:48 |显示全部楼层

好啊好啊,大家辛苦拉

能娶到像小要这样的女生做老婆 MS也蛮不错.....
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发表于 2005-10-20 21:47:49 |显示全部楼层
好厉害啊!真希望有越来越多的人喜欢宫老的电影
因此学会爱
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发表于 2005-11-2 13:50:25 |显示全部楼层

又有新的访谈可以看`

但是要上课了`

留着好了``

呵呵````

总是看着天空…因为往下看的景象太过刺激…所以都往上看…滴在废墟上的眼泪…注定悲伤的童话……
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发表于 2005-12-23 11:40:57 |显示全部楼层
大家辛苦了!おつかめさまでした
人には、必ず二つの顔がある。醜い面だけが、あなたのすべてじゃない。 大事なのは、目をそむけずに自分と向き合うこと。その二つの面があってこそ、人なのだから。
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发表于 2006-6-7 13:23:52 |显示全部楼层
辛苦辛苦
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发表于 2006-7-12 09:03:43 |显示全部楼层
人世间最厉害的人 莫过于此
楓曰:已矣哉,世無人知我兮,又何談懷志嘹;既莫足爲美事兮,吾將從心冥之起爲。
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发表于 2008-7-30 20:15:32 |显示全部楼层
楼主辛苦了!感谢分享!
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发表于 2008-8-1 09:21:49 |显示全部楼层
很需要。Thanks~
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阿丽埃蒂绘画大赛荣誉勋章

发表于 2008-8-1 12:07:46 |显示全部楼层
西方人眼中的宫崎骏.殊途同归啊.
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发表于 2008-8-5 06:01:39 |显示全部楼层
看了那么多的动画,感觉还是宫老的风格最好,不愧是大师呀,我不喜欢现在的动画,无聊,黄色,暴力
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发表于 2008-11-17 20:30:51 |显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
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发表于 2008-11-17 21:42:09 |显示全部楼层
看的好过瘾吶,嘿嘿
宫崎骏这个可爱的老头儿
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发表于 2012-1-2 06:55:12 |显示全部楼层
原来移动城堡是映射伊拉克战争
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