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[宫崎骏访谈及其相关] [原创][翻译]宫崎骏谈日本动画(1988)

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发表于 2005-8-20 05:17:27 |只看该作者 |倒序浏览

宫崎骏谈日本动画

About Japanese animation

摘自《当代日本电影现状》一书

作者:Iwanami Shoten 1988.1.28

翻译:形影

所有翻译均为动画爱好者交流所用,版权归原作者及所属媒体所有

翻译部分未经允许,请勿转载.

.

.

宫崎骏 1988年

1958年,第一部彩色动画影片《白蛇传》在日本上映。那时的我还是一个正在准备大学入学考试的高三学生,在一家廉价的三等影院,我观看了这部电影。

我得很惭愧地承认,我爱上了女性英雄主义的动画。我被深深的震撼了,大雪中,我跌跌撞撞的走回家中。与他们(剧中人物)的执著比起来,我为自己感到非常地羞愧,哭了一整个晚上。在我备考、少年和廉价电影的时期,这令我一直觉得很沮丧——思考然后忘记是件很容易的事,但对于当初那个还不成熟的我来说,那次看《白蛇传》的经历却留下了非常强烈的印象。

这件事也叫我认识到自己原来是多么的愚蠢,那时的我正试图画一部彼时非常流行但十分可笑的漫画,并想借此成为一名漫画家。我明白了,尽管说了许多不信任这个世界的话,我渴望着一个执著和纯洁的世界,尽管那只是一部廉价电影。我不能再否认,自己内心是很想肯定这个世界的。

从那以后,我开始认真思考到底应该做些什么。最终,我决定听从自己的意愿,哪怕这条路最终只是条死胡同。

1963年,我进入渡英动画工作室开始了我的动画生涯,但是工作并不有趣。我不能认同从事的工作和计划,甚至打算放弃梦想去做一名漫画家,很是迷茫。《白蛇传》带给我的刺激早已消散,现在只能回忆起其中的一些瑕疵。如果没有《白雪公主》的出现,我怀疑自己根本不会坚持下去。

《白雪公主》证明,只要你在一部动画片里倾注了爱,即使单纯的图片转换也能成为表演。它也证明了,当你在绘制的时候,只要保持一颗单纯而坚定的心,动画也能如其他形式的传媒形式一样,撞击人们的心灵。尽管剧情苍白,我认为《白蛇传》也做到了这一点。

我很庆幸自己从事的是动画事业。在某个时刻,我们每个人都会面临一个机遇,我选择了制作动画,并坚持至今。

《白蛇传》和《白雪公主》都是很受欢迎的影片。尽管不喜欢演歌,我承认自己也是一个流行文化中的人。自从看了Matka Joanna od aniolow(波兰影片《天使的乔丹妈妈》.1961年获嘎纳评审团奖)以后,我开始不断地坚持看ATG(学院艺术公会)的作品,但是即使他们所有的影片合起来也不能比《摩登时代》更叫我喜欢。对于一部受欢迎的电影来说,时机很重要。观众的精神状况决定了电影的影响,这与电影情节本身一样的重要性。毫无疑问,作为一个永恒的艺术,它的价值包括我在内的观众,理解力都是有限的,经常会漏看掉一些重要的线索。如果一部电影能让能使观众从日常生活的压力及失落中解脱出来,缓解阴郁的情绪,找到意外赞赏、诚恳,或者是自己的优点,然后精神奕奕的去面对现实的生活,那么它就是一部受欢迎的电影。即使几分钟后你会嘲笑影片的多愁善感,但对于你来说,影片就有了意义。我与《白蛇传》的初遇意义深远,不是因为他对我后来择业的巨大影响,而是因为我在当自己还不成熟的时候认识了它。

从那以后,我认为一部受欢迎的影片应该充满着真实的情感,即使那是虚幻的。通俗并且大众化,这样才能让每个人都接受,但是绝不能粗俗,必须能发人深省、引起反思,不是简单的喊出某些诺言,和被强调夸大的事物。我不喜欢迪斯尼影片,入口和出口都被设置为同样的高度和宽度,这完全是在蔑视观众啊。

在开始拍一部日本动画以前,我会写一些被认为是反思或者经验谈的文章。之所以这么做,只是想弄清楚自己的角度到底在哪里。今天,我无法不怀着辛酸来谈论,与那些在50年代激励我的动画相比,80年代的我们对待动画的制作,与飞机上提供的免费套餐一样:大规模的产出已经改变了整个状况,原本应当贯彻始终的真实情感被虚伪、神经质和嘲讽所替代。在作品中投入自己真实情感的做法,在计件工作的分工系统中被消磨得一干二净。我痛恨简缩版动画,那些简化的语言不正是(日本动画)孤寂的表现么?

我不想为日本动画辩护或者剖析。动画更适合与电脑游戏、外国汽车、美食等一起谈论。当我与朋友在一起讨论动画的时候,话题最终都会转向我们的文化环境、社会或者我们在这个社会中感到的失落和孤独。动画热潮来而复去,目前(1987年)每周大约有30部动画TV、剧场版、OVA以及为美国动画的转包工作。但是已经没有谈论的必要了,如果还有什么值得探讨的问题,那就是日本动画界和“夸张表现手法”和“信念的缺乏”,二者正危及着日本的动画产业。

动画的夸张表现手法

动画的技术没有极限,你可以不画一张图的制作一部动画片。如果在某处安放一台摄影机,每天以同一个角度持续拍摄,1秒钟24个画面,一年以后你就能够成功制作出一部大约15秒钟的电影。如果这样的行为发生在东京,那么将会成为非常有价值的工作。如果我们将某人出生起每个月的一张照片以每秒24张的速度连接起来,将会得到一部怎样的影片呢?

我们很难说清到底有多少技术,世界各地每天都有许多流行而精彩的短篇被制作出来。但是可以这么说,我们的动画都是使用一种叫做cel动画的技术制作出来的。

cel,即电影胶片,现在已经变成氯化塑料胶片的简称,我们如今仍旧使用这种简称。利用这种技术,我们可以将一张绘于纸上的图转变成为电影胶片,然后使用水性塑胶颜料对其上色,填充背景。顺便提一下,日本几乎与美国同时开发了这种技术。

这种逐格动画技术非常适合于分工协作,动画胶片上的人物形象既清晰又生动。画面的清晰同时也意味着动画本身的苍白。换种方法说,它们仅仅只是一些漂亮的画面而已,好比看一本胶版绘册,你只需要瞟一眼就能读懂,随后,对你来说他们便毫无意义了。一张很糟的画通过这种技术也可以勉强过关,而一张很好的画在经过这样的工序后往往会失去感染力。总的说来,这是一种取巧的技术,它将图的特性一律抹杀并模式化,远离动画本体。但这种特征也使得大规模的分工制作一部动画变得可行。

为了保证逐格动画的质量,你需要一批耐心非常的技术人员,其中,核心动画人员负责令画面动起来。要督促一群好的动画制作人员是非常困难的。有人说动画制作人好比演员,如果真是如此,在新年晚会上的即兴表演会更加出色。基本的规则是:严重性、惯性、弹性、流动性、透视法(角度)、时机的选择等等。在正式表演前,你需要学习许多的知识,动画制作者们被淹没在堆积如山的课后作业里。没有一个动画制作人能独立的令动画活动起来,这种说法一点也不过分。如果一位动画监督要求剧中的人物表演,他将立即陷入对动画制作人不信任的挫折感中。Rotoscope(一种制作二维动画的技术)在美国和苏联都得到了发展,在这两地,从很早起,动画制作人的想象和能力都明显地受到了限制。然而,如果你想要将现实的表演移植到图片上去,即使是最伟大的演员也会变得不易辨认,并且叫人讨厌。那是因为表演并不仅仅是画面的移动。那是由光与影的微妙变化形成的,cel也无法表现出织物的干与湿,一连串的动作也是动画每秒24图的速度所无法达到的。

老练的员工要求人物能在一个更简单的可以通过身体轮廓表达出自身的状态下表演。他们通过这种喜剧表演方式,比起单纯为电影用,动画更适合于这种风格。这就是为什么迪斯尼人物的表演看起来象一出音乐剧,,而《白公主主》则更象一部芭蕾舞剧。在利用rotoscope的过程中,我们也失败过许多次。如果在简单而真实的现实环境中制作,BAKSHI的《指环王》就不可能成功。同样的,迪斯尼的《灰姑娘》也证实了运用rotoscope寻找“更多真实”的行动本身就是一把双仞剑。寻找“更多真实”的行动仅仅表达出一个不同的美国女孩的感受,同时,它丢失了和白雪公主相比的故事性。

在日本,rotoscope并不受欢迎。并非仅仅是由于经济上的因素。我自己也很讨厌这种技术。如果动画制作人为真人的演出所迷倒,那么他对动画的激情就会减少大半。尽管我们还可以说,在模仿以后我们就失去了自己的表现风格木偶戏、歌舞伎、能和狂言与我们的作品离得太远了。从日本音乐和芭蕾中借鉴的方式并没有令我们感兴趣。一直以来,只要经济条件允许,都会我们运用对电影的各种感情、直觉和感觉来制作动画。人物的动作常常利用其抽象化和分裂人物的面部表情来构建,(如眼睛、眉毛、嘴巴和鼻子),然后再次构建他们。然而,我们曾试图通过“识别角色”和“成为主角”来克服象征性动画的衰退。

可不要小瞧了这些简单的力量,它可不仅仅是风格或者现象,但如果你能够捕捉住自己真实想要表达的感情,一张带着真实感情的画便有了自己的力量。我爱着这种力量远胜于观看单纯的胶片移动。

让我们回到日本动画。日本动画将漫画动画化,使用漫画中的角色设计,并吸收其中的精髓,然后由立志成为漫画家的人们制作。当然,也会有例外情况,但我认为这种情况更为普遍。1963年以前,当TV动画起步时,除了漫画,渡英工作室还发展了许多别的形式,但是随着动画连续剧的大量制作,动画以漫画为蓝本变成了传统。以漫画为基础,日本动画开始以每周固定时间放送TV动画,与剧场版动画比起来,TV版要短得多。由于时间和预算有限,绘图的数量必须尽可能的减少。工作员工的缺乏致使许多技术不熟练或者不够成熟的人也加入进来,对于动画人来说,限制是不存在的。包括管理和编剧在内,所有的部门都是这样,以及员工前所未有的充数和提升。但恐怖的是,这种趋势已经持续20年了。

(一部TV动画)必须不惜一切代价赶上每周的放映时间,这样,我们不得不尽量减少使用“运动”——这一动画最大特征——的方式去制作动画(注:也就是说减少祯数吧),如此(风格)奇怪的动画却能被观众们所接受,也许是因为大家已经习惯于动画的兄长——漫画的形象语言,它的影响已经渗透了整个社会。

当我们放弃“运动”的时候,日本动画开始了。通过引进漫画的工具和技术,这种做法变得可行。逐格动画的技术更能迎合这个显而易见的冲击。他被设计为保证观众只看到强大的、有型的、以及漂亮的一面。(人物设计)被要求仅仅在一张图中就能表现出该人物所有的要求,而不是通过动作和表情来给剧中的人物注入生命力。

奇怪的是,理论家直到最近,才来发表评论.总有人说是到了该限制动画的时候了,或者一幅静止的图画是一种新的表现手法,而我们再也不需要运动了。

不仅人物的外型和性格,时间和空间也被完全的扭曲了。投球手扔出球,捕手接住,球落在棒球手套里,随着对球所倾注的情感,这个时段可以被无限延长。一名动画制作人会追求力量型的运动来表现这样的时刻。将一个椭圆形的赛场描述为战场,其意义等同于战场之于英雄。奇怪的是,这种叙述故事的方式几乎接近于流言。这些动画的描写方式近乎于Heichachiro Magaki骑马登上愛宕山的石阶。

技术的角色是令画面动起来,在这里,仅仅用来强调和修饰这个被延长的时段和扭曲的时间和空间。对日常生活中人物的描写(这一点日本人并不擅长),被当作不必要和过时的事物给删减掉了。偏偏大家都还争相追捧着这种愚蠢的做法。动画制作人能力的判断标准,已经变成战争、比赛、或者机器的细节刻画,他们所强调的,只是武器的威力,从nuke到激光武器,无论这是那个军队的。即使有对人物情感的描写,漫画的表现手法很容易的被借用到这里,使用音乐、角度、对静止的画面进行修饰,但整个画面还是静止的。这被认为是一个动画人能停下来休息的非常无趣的阶段,

当需要考虑所要制作动画片的价值时,动画制作人开始倾向于单凭运动的华丽程度做评价。

例如,一个英雄只能嘲笑,因为一旦他笑的时候,整个脸便会扭曲。一个女英雄的大眼睛突然变成小黑点,而这两者并没有任何联系。尤其是没有任何存在意义的(被扭曲的)角色,在一个虚构的精彩的世界里,他们利用这种延长的时间来经常摆酷(他们想保持多久就能保持多久)——这已经成为日本动画的主要特征了。

当这种表现手法最初出现时,那时的人们流行以这种延时来进行评判。的确,当观众们被这些比作品本身更加吸引人的延时片断所吸引住的时候,这种手法被观众们狂热的支持着。高潮部分的《巨人之星》是一个典型的例子。然而,随着这种扭曲的过度使用,它仅仅成为了技术的早期形式。为了扭转这种不利局面,动画片中的延时镜头被修饰得越来越华丽。最初,两个机器人合体成一个,随后变成三个机器人的合体,再然后是5个,最终发展到26个机器人的合体。人物设计变得越来越复杂,大眼睛也开始泛出了七彩光。各种颜色的阴影越来越多,甚至连天空也被涂上任何形状明亮的颜色。这使得动画制作人倍感痛苦,因为他们是以所画的原图数量来计酬,这样的设计令他们工作强度剧增。

这种模式开始流行,渐渐到了令人恐怖的程度。

我不是说在各种各样的压力下,就不需要去努力创建自己的风格;我不是说不需要去努力描述一个存在的时间和空间。我不是说不需要努力去拒绝成为漫画的附属品。然而,他们中的许多人都在顺应着这种表现趋势,许多年轻人也因为自己对这种夸张表现的喜爱而进入这一行业

也许我也在夸大日本动画的现状。并不是所有的日本动画都是通过夸张的手法来表现的。

随着“动画=夸张的表现”的公式开始被社会所广泛接受,动画的发展就遇上了瓶颈。正如流言不能满足如今听众的需要一样,动画制作人失去了观众的支持。为了跟上不断变化的世界,他们放弃了自己的灵活性和谦让。即使是这样,他们中的许多人至今也没能意识到自己在动画上的观点是多么的奇怪。他们仍旧确信夸张就是动画的表现形式。

实际上,在1987年的今天,临近动画爆炸的时候,这种夸张的表现手法受到了限制。剩下的转向OVA,但是尽管由于新的传媒手段的出现,录影带市场已经扩大了不多,但仍旧有限。依据动画迷们的的购买能力,我们对这些动画迷进行了分类。同时,在TV动画界,为孩子们制作动画这一趋势越来越强,我们很遗憾,自己将目标观众的年龄定得过高了。然而,没有任何表明,日本动画中这种使用夸张表现手法的现象会有所改变。因为导致日本动画尽量使用静止画面的情况没有改变,许多动画制作人认为这是可耻的,他们并没有考虑到,动画做出来是给孩子们带来快乐的。

在美国,有种说法叫做“周六上午的动画制作人”。每个周六的上午,为了让父母们睡个懒觉,电视里会播放大量的动画节目。这是制作这些节目的动画人们自嘲的说法。在动画热过去以后,对于日本的动画人来说,要重新将自己的职业视为一种能将自己的感情投入其中的艺术,是很困难的。

失去信念

在《福尔摩斯》中有这么一段:华生医生对福尔摩斯说:“你拯救了全人类。”如果我们能够那样看待问题的话,事情就会变得简单许多了;如果我们能得出爱可以征服一切的结论,编剧就会容易许多;如果正义在自己的一边,对手都是邪恶的,拍一部动作片就会容易许多;如果我们能毫不犹豫地为自己的信仰而无偿付出或献身,或者,如果我们能相信有那样的信仰存在,事情都会容易许多。

另一方面,这一切也会容易许多,如果我们认为人类都是愚蠢的,一切都不可相信,一切的主义和信仰都应该被怀疑,所有的自我牺牲最终都会沦为自助。在这个社会里,阴暗和丑恶的事物总是很容易被发现的。

但是那也许并不是因为我们拥有更坚定的信念——爱与正义必胜,可能只是因为我们落伍了(我们的动画是由小部分人制作出来的,或者是由漫画改编的)

今天,制作人不再去拍一些英雄主义的影片了。也许是因为我们都认识到,在这个现实的社会,许多努力最终都只是徒劳。我们的旧敌人贫穷已经消失,再也找不到需要与之斗争的敌人。

仅剩的信念,只有我们的专业精神。因为是机器人战士,所以角色们会去战斗;因为是警察,所以追踪罪犯;因为要成歌手,所以要去击败竞争对手;因为是运动员,所以刻苦锻炼,诸如此类。此外,再就是对喘息声和裙子里边的兴趣吧。

当然(我们耗尽了动力),即使是最后对信念的求助,如“妄图征服世界”这样的题材,每周见到的如此频繁,令我们厌倦不堪。在《大和宇宙军舰》将爱情如此商业化后,如果没有感觉到爱情的苍白是非常奇怪的。这部影片引发了动画热潮,但颇具讽刺意味的是,它实际上也埋葬了爱与正义。

拍摄于70年代的《明日的乔》,早已过时变成一具腐尸,但这并非因为夸张的表现主义。

信念的缺失:日本动画表明了,不断制作没有坚定信念的人物的作品,会是多么的糟糕。你无法因为你属于巨人而他们属于龙、鲤鱼或者老虎而仇恨你的对手。“我不想失败,但我能理解你的处境”——机器人星球大战的TV动画片中,这样的主题非常的常见。这些片子中充斥着人格分裂的人物,观众们视其为他们所必须面对的现实——这个社会是虚伪的。但同时,他们对此感到无比厌倦。

是一种毫无价值的观点,在某种程度上,它很好的说明了“适者生存”这个道理。但是,当我们用之前提到的夸张的手法来一味追求它的时候,事情会变成则样呢?所有的一切都变成了一场游戏。

爱情是思维的游戏,战争是杀戮的游戏,体育是赚钱的游戏。

日本动画已经开始充斥的游戏。即使是角色的死也是非常游戏化的,创作者成为神,死亡成为最终的结局。游戏取代动画是很自然的事,玩家们能更多地参与游戏,从中获得更大的满足感。

美国电影为制止缺失信念的现象,他们成立了Reagan联盟。纳粹=反派,这一公式在过去被过度使用,所以现在,苏联和地下游击队再次成为反派人物的首选。

如果创作者创作一些连他自己都不相信的作品,别人也会很快发现这一点。事实也证明,只有那些具有生命力和活力的东西才是最重要的。每当我看见那些60年代被高度评价的“当代儿童”——他们现在已经为人父母,困惑的生活者,并成为婴儿潮的制造者,我认识到一个很自然的道理:产生于时代和流行的东西,不可能永恒。

即使创作者能够没有信念,孩子们每天依旧出生、成长。他们的战争一点也没有减少。即使他们不像从前的孩子那样,以正义的英雄为榜样,今天的孩子们仍想获得鼓励,仍旧想学会怎样去感知世界是美好的。否则,为什么他们会如此具有暴力和自残倾向呢?

缺乏信念是当前普遍存在的现象,由此繁衍出了怀疑、辞职和无Government主义。如果没有认识到这点,我们还能制作出什么基于自己阵情感的影片来?我认识到,日本动画的朽化源于于仅凭自己的专业精神去制作动画的做法,这是极度愚蠢的。

不是总结的总结

公众的愿望不会有很大的改变。在我看来,他们的愿望常常被那些他们称“不酷”和“过时”的东西所埋葬。不论时代如何改变,我相信孩子们都渴望着一个冲击,如同当年的《白蛇传》所带给我的一样。如果事实不是这样,我会毫不犹豫的放弃掉现在的职业,如果我能做到这样果断。我们在进行的是一场接力赛,我们努力的跑,把棒子递交给下一个人。作为一种流行文化,我们的作品与那些所谓的艺术或者创造性的可怕而激进的东西有着本质上的区别。让我们使用“艺术家”来形容他们。

我们疲倦、厌烦,然而如果你生活在当今的日本而不感觉到厌倦的话,那会是很奇怪的。

我从事胶片动画事业已经多年了,觉得常常办不到的事要比能够办到的多得多。但我仍旧认为,在孩提时期看一部好的动画是一个不坏的经历。然而在另一方面,我很清醒地认识到我们的事业是建立在孩子们的购买力基础上的。无论我们认为自己是多么的小心谨慎,也无法否认,那些角色(如动画中的)只会带来视觉和听觉的冲击,但同时它们也剥脱了孩子们走出去发现、接触和了解世界的机会。这个社会是如此的庞大,以至于我们很难指出到底动画在哪些方面改变了一切。

今天,我周围的许多人都生活得很艰难。但是我无法证明我们已经尽力,也无法理直气壮地说出我们的痛楚。我们的职业已经朽化了。我的矛盾也越来越重。当放弃脑海中涌出的那些想法时,我仍会努力让自己做得更好。因此,我适当采用了一些技术来适应这个世界。说到对专业化的厌恶,我自己也经常根据才能来判断一个人。当我说我不想谈论一个问题的时候,我通常会讨论动画。当含着:“日本动画都见鬼去吧!”,我担心我那失业的朋友。在呼吁我们需要更多的动画之后,我就开始谈论自己的下一个新企划。尽管知道在现如今的条件下,如果想要制作一些人性化的动画,我们必须去接受我们自己必须得以非人道的方式生活,但我最终变成了一个工作狂。

然而,为了使工作变得有意义,我们需要做些什么呢?如果呆在东京的话,我们什么也不会弄明白的。在电视和电影工业中,我们是无法找到任何答案的。我们必须走出去,否则只会成为井底之蛙。我想我的矛盾,与观众一样,都希望打破那个束缚。我们需要坚持下去的意志。因此,我毫无选择,只能一次又一次地回到起点。

.

.

英文原文:

It was 1958 when Hakujaden (The Legend of White Snake), the first feature length color cartoon movie in Japan, was released. In the end of that year, I, who was a senior high school student and was supposed to be preparing for the university entrance exam, met this movie at a third-class cheap movie theater.

I have to make an embarrassing confession. I fell in love with the heroine of a cartoon movie. My soul was moved, and I stumbled back home in the snow that had just started. Comparing my pitiful situation to their (characters') earnestness, I was ashamed of myself, and cried all night. It could be my depressed psyche during the entrance exam time, underdeveloped adolescence, or cheap melodrama-- it's easy to analyze and dismiss it, but the meeting with Hakujaden left a strong impression on me, who was still immature at that time.

It made me realize what a fool I was, who was trying to be a manga writer by writing an absurd drama, which was in fashion at that time. It made me realize that despite the words of distrust I spoke, I yearned for such an earnest and pure world though it may be a cheap melodrama. I could no longer deny the fact that I really wanted to affirm the world.

Since then, it seems that I came to think seriously about what I should make. At least, I came to think that I should work with my true heart, even if that's embarrassing.

It was 1963. I was a rookie animator at the Toei Animation Studio, but the work wasn't interesting. I couldn't agree to the projects I was working on, or the projects in plan. I was yet to abandon my dream to be a manga writer, and I was lost. The inspiration Hakujaden had given me was long gone, and I could only recall its imperfections. I doubt if I would have continued to work as an animator, had I not met Snow Queen at the screening hosted by the union.

Snow Queen proved how much love could be put into a work of animation, and how much the movement of the pictures can sublimate to acting. It proved that when you draw a simple and strong emotion earnestly and purely, animation can strike people's hearts as much as the best works of other media can. I think that Hakujaden also had it despite its weakness in the story.

I was thankful for the fact that I was an animator. Someday, we might have an opportunity. I decided to settle down and continue this job.

Both Hakujaden and Snow Queen are popular movies. Although I don't like enka, I must admit that I myself am a man of popular culture.[1] I kept going to see the works of ATG (Art Theater Guild) since Matka Joanna od aniolow, but I prefer Modern Times more than all of them combined.[2] For a popular movie, the moment of the meeting is important. The state of mind of the audience determines the meaning of the movie, as much as the contents of the movie do. Its value as eternal art isn't a question. The audience, including myself, have only limited ability to understand, and tend to overlook important clues. If such an audience can be released from the stress or sorrow in their daily lives, can release their gloomy emotion, can find unexpected admiration, honesty, or affirmation in themselves, and can return to their daily lives with a bit more energy, that's the role of a popular movie. Even if you laugh at the sentimentalism in the movie a few minutes later, the movie has a meaning to you. My meeting with Hakujaden meant a lot, not because it affected my choice of profession, but because I met it when I was a lot more immature than now.

Hence, I think that a popular movie has to be full of true emotion, even if it's frivolous. The entrance should be low and wide so that anyone can be invited in, but the exit should be high and purified. It shouldn't be something that admits, emphasizes, or enlarges the lowness. I don't like Disney movies. The entrance and the exit are lined up at the same low height and width. I can't help but feel that it looks down on the audience.

The reason why I wrote something which might be considered as a religious confession or simple empiricism before I write about Japanese anime is because I wanted to make clear where I stand. Today, I can't talk about our business without some bitterness. Compared to several works in the 1950s which inspired me, we in the 1980s make animation as if it's an in-flight meal served on a Jumbo Jet. Mass production has changed the situation. The true emotion and feeling that should be carried through have been replaced by a bluff, neurosis, or teasing. The craft that we should put our love into has been worn down in the piecework production system. I hate the abbreviation anime because I can't help but think that the word symbolizes the desolation (of Japanese animation).

I don't feel like defending, speaking for, or analyzing Japanese anime. Anime is more suitable to be discussed together with computer games, foreign cars, or playing gourmet. When I discuss anime with my friends, it somehow turns into a discussion about our cultural situation, the desolation of the society, or our tightly controlled society. Something called the anime boom had come and gone, but about 30 TV series per week, several scores of theatrical and video anime, and subcontract works for the United States are still produced in this country today in 1987. But there is no use talking about it. If there is something we have to talk about, it's the "excessive expressionism" and the "loss of motives" in Japanese anime. These two are corrupting Japanese popular animation.


Excessive expressionism in anime

There is no limit to the techniques of animation. You can make animation without drawing a picture. If you put a camera somewhere, and continue to film a frame, meaning 1/24 second, per day with the same angle, you can make a movie of about 15 seconds after a year. If you continue doing so in Tokyo, where there are a great many changes, it should be a very valuable work. What kind of film will we get, if we keep filming a nude person one frame per month, from the time that person is a newborn?

There are countless techniques, and classy and excellent short works are still produced somewhere in the world. But we can pretty much say that our popular animation is made in the technique of cel animation.

Cel, meaning celluloid sheet, has become vinyl chloride sheet, but we still use the abbreviation today. In this technique, a picture on paper is transferred to cel (by adhering carbon via heat treatment). Then it is colored with water-based vinyl paint and filmed with the background. By the way, this technique was developed in Japan almost at the same time as in the United States.

Cel anime is a technique suitable for group work, and the images in cel anime are clear and have strong appeal. The clarity of the images at the same time means their shallowness. In other words, they are pictures with little information. You can easily tell this by looking at picture books using cels. They are appealing and easy to understand at first glance, but you soon become tired of them. A really bad drawing can become tolerable when it is made into a cel picture, and a good drawing loses its power when it is made into a cel. In short, cels make both good and bad into mediocre. This characteristic makes the mass-production (of animation) with many animators possible.

To make cel animation with a certain quality, you need a group of technicians with talent and patience. At the core of this group are animators who give movement to pictures. And how difficult it is to foster a group of good animators! Some say that animators are the same as actors, but if so, an improvised play at a year-end party would be better. The basic laws such as gravity, inertia, elasticity, fluidity, perspective, timing, etc.[3] There are too many lessons you have to learn before you think about acting, and animators get lost in the mountains of homework. It is not too much to say that if there are 100 animators, 100 of them can not make animation acting. If a director of an animated movie demands that characters in the movie act, he will immediately fall into distrusting animators and get frustrated. Rotoscope, which is a technique to draw poses and timing from live action film, was developed in the United States and the Soviet Union because the limits of animators' imagination and ability to draw was clear from early on. However, if you just transplant live-action into drawings, even the acting of a great actor can change into something peculiarly slimy and indistinct. That's because acting is not just movement. It is made of the subtle changes of shadows and lights, texture which can not be expressed with cels, wetness and dryness, and a succession of signs which are faster than one twenty-fourth of second.

Skillful staff members demanded the model actors to act in a more simple style that expresses itself through body silhouette. They thought that the acting style developed for theaters was better suited for cel animated movies than the style developed for movies. That is why the gestures of Disney characters look like a musical, and why (the characters in) Snow Queen act like (they are in) girls' ballet. There are many disastrous failures in rotoscope. Bakshi's The Lord of Rings could not be a success when it was based on poor live-action. Also, Disney's Cinderella has proved that seeking "more realistic" movements using rotoscope itself is a double-edged sword. The search for "more reality" just expressed a common American girl, and it lost the symbolism of the story more than Snow White did.

In Japan, rotoscope didn't become popular. It isn't just because of economic reasons. I myself hate this technique. If animators are enslaved by live-action films, the excitement in the animator's work would lessen by half. Though we can also say that we didn't have an acting style after which we could model. Bunraku, kabuki, nou, or kyougen are too far apart from our works, and Japanese musicals or ballet which are just borrowed (from the West) didn't interest us.[4] We have been animating with our passion, hunches, and feeling, based on various experiences of movies, manga, and others, as much as time and money allowed us. Gestures (of the characters) tend to be constructed by symbolizing and breaking characters' feelings down to facial parts (i.e., eyes, eyebrows, mouths, and noses) and reconstructing them. But we tried to overcome the decay of symbolization by animating through "identifying with the character" or "becoming the character."

You shouldn't look down on the simple power (of such an approach). It is far from style or sophistication, but if you can capture the true essence of what you should express, a picture with a true feeling has power. I love such power much better than the smooth movement of rotoscope.

Let's get back to Japanese anime. Japanese anime make manga into anime, use character designs of manga, absorb the vitality of manga, and are made by staff members who wanted to be manga writers. Of course, there are exceptions, but I think that this is pretty much the case in general. Before 1963, when the TV series (anime) started, there were other styles of Toei Animation Studio than manga, but the mass production of TV series and manga severed this tradition (of Toei style). Based on manga, Japanese anime started as TV series with weekly production schedules, which is overwhelmingly shorter than feature-length movies. Due to limited time and budget, the number of drawings had to be reduced as much as possible. The lack of staff brought the mass introduction of unskilled and inadequate workers. That wasn't limited to animators. It was the case for all the divisions including direction and script, and there was unprecedented padding and promotion of staff. The horrific thing is that this trend continued for 20 years.[5]

(A TV anime) has to be ready in time for the TV broadcast at any cost. And we have to make the product by using "movement," the biggest characteristic of animation, as little as possible. The reason why such a strange (style of) animation was accepted by viewers was probably because the image language of manga, an older brother of anime, had already penetrated society.

Japanese animation started when we gave up moving. That was made possible by introducing the methods of manga (including gekiga). The technique of cel anime was suited to obvious impacts, and it was designed so that the viewers would see nothing but powerfulness, coolness, and cuteness. Instead of putting life into a character with gestures or facial expressions, (character design) was required to express all the charm of the character with just one picture.

Strangely, theorists who justified this situation appeared during these times. There were people who said that it was time for limited animation, or that a still picture was a new expression and we no longer need movement.

Not only the design and personalities of the characters, but time and space were also completely deformed. The time needed for a ball thrown by a pitcher to reach the catcher's mitt was limitlessly extended by the passion put into the ball. And animators pursued powerful movement (to express) this extended moment. Depicting a narrow ring as a huge battlefield was justified as it is equal to a battlefield for the hero. Strangely, the way of such storytelling has become closer to koudan.[6] How these animations resemble the depiction of Heichachiro Magaki running up the stone steps of Atago mountain on horseback.[7]

The role of the techniques to move pictures was limited to emphasizing and decorating the extended and skewed time and space. The depiction of characters' action in everyday life, which (Japanese anime) was not good at to start with, was actively eliminated as something unnecessary and out-of-date. Absurdity was strongly pursued. The criteria for judging an animator's capability was changed to (the capability to animate) battles, matches, or detailed drawing of machines, an emphasis on the power of any arm, from nuclear to laser weapon. If there were a depiction of (character's) feeling, the method of manga was easily borrowed to get it done with music, angle, or decorating one still picture, without motion. It came to be considered as a rather uninteresting sequence, a section where the animators could take a rest. Animators became more inclined to judge only on the flashiness of the movement when they considered the value of the sequence they were to animate.

For example, a hero who can only sneer, since if he smiles that would screw his face up. A heroine with huge eyes that suddenly turn into dots without any connection between these two types of eyes. Extremely deformed characters with no sense of existence pretend to be cool in a deformed colorful world by extending time as much as they want-- that has become the major characteristic of Japanese anime.

When this expressionism first appeared, it was justified by "passion" which was in fashion at that time. Indeed, when the audience got excessively involved with the piece of work, and sympathized with it more than the work expressed, this method was overwhelmingly supported (by the audience). Kyojin no Hoshi in the high-growth era was one example[8]. However, as the passion wore out, it merely became the easiest pattern of technique. And to turn around the adverse situation, expression in anime more and more became excessively decorative. At first, two robots were combined to be a robot, then it became a three robot combination, then five, and finally the twenty-six robot combination. Character design became more and more complicated. Huge eyes had seven-colored highlights. More and more shadows were painted in different colors, and hair was painted in bright colors of every possible shade. It makes animators suffer, by increasing the workload of those who are paid by the quantity of animation they drew. The pattern has become prevalent to a frightening degree.

Maybe I, too, am exaggerating (the situation of) Japanese anime. Not all Japanese anime is run by excessive expressionism. I do not say that there was no effort made to establish their own (style) of acting under various constraints. I do not say that there was no effort made to depict time and space with a sense of existence. I do not say that there was no effort made to refuse to be a subordinate of manga. However, most of them followed this trend of expressionism, and many of the young staff have joined the anime industry because they admired this excessive expressionism.

As the formula of "anime = excessive expressionism" becomes widely accepted by society, anime hit a wall. In the same way that koudan cannot meet the needs of today's audience, anime creators lost the support of the audience. They brought it on themselves by losing their flexibility and humility towards the diversity of the world. Even so, many of them are still unaware of the strangeness of their views on anime. They are still convinced that excessive expression is what makes anime appealing.

Actually today in 1987, excessive expressionism has been forced to retreat as it loses share with the end of the anime boom. The remainder has moved to videos, but the market remains small although it (the video market) has been hyped a lot as a new medium. It has been pigeonholed as a market for anime maniacs by anime maniacs in typical reduced reproduction. Rather than feeling pity, I cannot help being reminded of the frog with a ballooned stomach in Aesop's fable. Meanwhile, there is now a strong trend in the TV anime world to return to works for children, as we regret that we have raised the age of the targeted audience too much. However, none of the conditions that created the expressionism of Japanese anime have changed. Because the conditions which leade to anime using few moving pictures haven't changed, many animators think that it is just a degradation, rather than think that they are making anime to please children.

There is a phrase, "Saturday Morning Animator," in the United States. On Saturday morning, TV is filled with animated programs so that it can babysit while parents sleep late. It is a self-mocking phrase of the animators who make such programs. After the boom has ended, it is likely to be very difficult for Japanese animators to rediscover their work as a craft that they can put their love into.


The loss of motives

In one of the episodes of Sherlock Holmes, Dr. Watson says "you saved humankind!" Things would be much easier if we were able to think like that. Making a story would be much easier if we were able to conclude that love conquers all. Making an action movie would be much easier if we were able to conclude that justice is on our side, and all evils belong to other people.

If we could say that one should not hesitate to make any sacrifice or devotion for a noble ideal, or, if we could even believe that such an ideal exists, our work would be much easier.

On the other hand, things would also be easier if we could conclude that humans are all stupid, nothing can be believed, all causes and beliefs are dubious, and all self-sacrifices are self-serving in the end. It's very easy to find ugly and dirty things in this society.

Among all popular culture, anime was probably the one that kept its preoccupation with love and justice the longest. But maybe that was not because we had strong beliefs, but because we were just behind the times due to such facts as anime being made by groups, or anime following behind manga.

Today, creators can no longer give heroes spontaneous motives. It seems that for some reason, we have just accepted the vanity of human effort in this managed society. Our old enemy "poverty" somehow disappeared, and we can no longer find an enemy to fight against.

The only remaining motive is, as in other genre, professionalism. Characters fight because they are robot soldiers, pursue criminals because they are police, beat competitors because they want to be singers, or work hard because they are sports players. Or else, (the remaining motive) is an interest in something in skirts or pants.

Of course (we ran out of motives). Even the last resort (of motives), "the organization who wants to conquer the world," bores us after seeing such things several times a week. It would be strange if love did not look so pale after it was so commercialized by Space Battleship Yamato. Yamato started the anime boom, but it's ironic that it was actually the grave of love and justice.

It was not just because of excessive expressionism that Ashita no Joe, made way past the 1970s, was left behind the times and became a smelly corpse.[9]

Loss of motives: Japanese animation has proven how terrible it is to keep making works without motivating characters based on their value system.

You can't hate your opponents just because you belong to the Giants and others belong to the Dragons, Carp, or Tigers.[10] "I don't want to lose, but I can understand your position"-- there have been many such themes in TV anime series about robot space wars. They were filled with torn-apart characters, and the audience accepted it as a realistic simulation of the society into which they have to go out, but at the same time, they were fed up with it.

Professionalism is a kind of no-value view, and it somehow resolves into the "survival of the fittest." And what happens when we pursue it with the excessive expressionism I mentioned before? Everything becomes a game.

Love is a game of the mind, war is a game of killing, and sports is a game which brings money.

Japanese anime have come to be filled with games. Even the deaths of the characters became games, and creators became gods and reached a dead end. It is natural that anime has been replaced by computer games. Players can get a bit more satisfaction since games allow more participation.

American movies got fed up with the loss of motives, and they made an alliance with (Ronald) Reagan. They overused Nazis as villains, so they asked the Soviet Union and its underling guerillas to get on stage again.

If creators depict something they don't believe, that soon becomes apparent. And still, we were convinced that such things as vitality or energy were important. When I see that those "today's kids," whom people thought so highly of in the 1960s, have now become parents and are living in bewilderment as baby boomers, I realize a self-evident thing: things which are born out of situations and fashion cannot become more than that after all.

Even if the creators cannot have motivation, kids are born and growing every day. Their battles are not lessened at all. Even if they aren't encouraged by a hero of justice as kids used to be, kids today still want to get encouraged, still want to learn how to feel the world is beautiful. Otherwise, why are they so violent or self-destructive?

The loss of motives is today's situation. Distrust, resignation, or nihilism has been born out of the situation. Without realizing it, what can we make that is only based on our sensitivity? I think that the cause of the corruption of Japanese animation is the foolishness of making anime just by professionalism.


A conclusion which cannot be a conclusion

The wishes of the public cannot be changed so much. I think that their wishes are buried in the very things they call uncool or out of fashion. No matter how times change, I believe that children want such an impact as the one I received from watching Hakujaden. If this turned out to be untrue, I would quit such a job (as an animator) in a minute.If I can be so arbitrary, I say that we are running relay. We are running to pass the baton to the next runner. I think that our work as a popular culture is fundamentally different from such a terrifyingly radical thing as art or creation. Let's not deceive ourselves by using such words as "artist."

We are fed up and disgusted, but if you live in today's Japan without being disgusted, that would be strange.

I've been working on cel anime for a long time, and I feel that there are more things we cannot do than things we can do. Still, I think that seeing a wonderful animation when one is a child isn't such a bad experience. But on the other hand, I am very much aware that our business targets children's purchasing power. No matter how we may think of ourselves as conscientious, it is true that images (such as anime) stimulate only the visual and auditory sensations of children, and they deprive children of the world that they go out to find, touch, and taste. This society has bulged out to the point where the sheer volume has changed everything.

Today, many people in my business are having difficulties in making a living. But I can not justify what we have been doing enough to proclaim our distress too loudly. Our profession has been corrupted.

The ambivalence in myself is also getting worse. While turning my back on the flood of images, I am still struggling to do at least a little bit better job. For that, I even rationalize the techniques to get on in the world. While saying I hate pros, I know that at work, I myself judge people solely based on their talents. While saying I don't want to talk about it, I always talk about animation. While bellowing "to hell with Japanese anime," I worry about my friend who is out of work. Right after yelling why do we need more anime, I start talking about a new project. Although I know that we have to accept that we have to live inhumane days if we want to make humane anime in today's situation, I become a workaholic as a matter of course.

Still, for our works to make some sense, what should we do? We can't see anything if we stay in Tokyo. We can't find anything if we look for a hint in the TV or movie industry. Unless we make an effort to get a viewpoint to see far away, we will end up in a small closed world. I think that my ambivalence is the same with the bindings from which the audience wishes to be freed. We need the will to sustain. Hence, I have no choice but to go back to my starting point time after time.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-5-10 21:24:00编辑过]
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沙发
发表于 2005-8-20 12:18:06 |只看该作者

好长啊,我还是把它看完了

宫崎骏确实好辛苦,要不断地自我怀疑,又要自我肯定,他到底还是老了


天上的光芒全部都是星星!
让我们一起变成星星吧,诺诺!
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发表于 2005-8-22 19:54:54 |只看该作者

“只要你在一部动画片里倾注了爱,即使单纯的图片转换也能成为表演。

“一部受欢迎的影片应该充满着真实的情感,即使那是虚幻的。

“如果我们能毫不犹豫地为自己的信仰而无偿付出或献身,或者,如果我们能相信有那样的信仰存在,事情都会容易许多。

“爱情是思维的游戏,战争是杀戮的游戏,体育是赚钱的游戏。

“如果创作者创作一些连他自己都不相信的作品,别人也会很快发现这一点。事实也证明,只有那些具有生命力和活力的东西才是最重要的。产生于时代和流行的东西,不可能永恒。

看了很受启发

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发表于 2005-8-24 07:45:28 |只看该作者

我插一句,这个翻译有8000多字 形影翻了一个星期才翻完,也属于“三峡工程”之“功在当代,利在千秋”之类的,一个很详尽的宫崎骏谈话录。工作人员是很辛苦的,大家向她表示致敬。(全体起立鼓掌,啪啪啪啪)


[此贴子已经被作者于2005-8-24 7:47:00编辑过]
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发表于 2005-8-25 13:01:58 |只看该作者

“只要你在一部动画片里倾注了爱,即使单纯的图片转换也能成为表演。
“一部受欢迎的影片应该充满着真实的情感,即使那是虚幻的。
“如果我们能毫不犹豫地为自己的信仰而无偿付出或献身,或者,如果我们能相信有那样的信仰存在,事情都会容易许多。
“爱情是思维的游戏,战争是杀戮的游戏,体育是赚钱的游戏。
“只有那些具有生命力和活力的东西才是最重要的。产生于时代和流行的东西,不可能永恒。

看了很受启发。

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发表于 2005-8-26 03:57:56 |只看该作者

我们什么也不会弄明白的。在电视和电影工业中,我们是无法找到任何答案的。我们必须走出去,否则只会成为井底之蛙。我想我的矛盾,与观众一样,都希望打破那个束缚。我们需要坚持下去的意志。因此,我毫无选择,只能一次又一次地回到起点。

宫崎骏实现了他的诺言 赞一个

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发表于 2005-12-2 23:48:13 |只看该作者

对阿,说的很对阿!~

中国动画想要发展也应该走出去!~~

不过话说回来,现在的日本动画商业味太重了,感觉作品虽然是比以前大幅度增长,可是质量不见得好于以前。。。有点浮躁!~~我觉得应该多些像宫老的片子,像大友最近的《蒸汽男孩〉就让人耳目一量(阿,扯远了,大家54我把)

It all returns to nothing....... I just keep,letting me down,letting me down,letting me down......
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发表于 2006-1-19 10:39:02 |只看该作者

我觉得这篇文章很好。

顶!

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发表于 2006-2-2 22:25:20 |只看该作者

“最终,我决定听从自己的意愿,哪怕这条路最终只是条死胡同。”

宫老为自己的梦想很直着噢`精神可佳`呱唧呱唧`


戀丄日の劇、/—‘
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发表于 2006-2-25 07:45:11 |只看该作者
谢谢,我会好好拜读的。
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发表于 2006-4-11 12:25:45 |只看该作者
教你快速学会《天之城主题曲》。
我自已编的,感觉还不错,我发现要想好东西不失传,就是大家都有。嘿嘿还有和大家分享也是很快乐的。
天空之城
阿怒七黑一塞m,卡拿呀苦诺哇,都抠喀你k密欧,卡哭西dei依路喀啦
卡哭撒m脑黑嘎 ,那次嘎西依脑哇,啊no都类喀黑刀ci呢,ki咪那依
路卡啦,撒dei卡ki又欧,黑都ki来no趴m,那依副拦扑卡八你 呲没
靠m内,偷搜那no拷西哒,那呲依欧穆哩,卡撒那哭里卡卡no马那扎
西,启开路哇马哇路,ki咪喔卡哭西dei,卡卡呀哭黑偷咪,ki拉咪哭
偷哞西咪,启开路哇马哇路,ki咪欧卡怒西dei,依呲开ki都雷啊路,
哭哭啦哇脑西dei,偷搜那no拷西哒,那呲依欧穆哩,卡撒那哭里卡
卡no马那扎西,启开路哇马哇路,ki咪喔卡哭西dei,卡卡呀哭黑偷咪
,ki拉咪哭偷哞西咪,启开路哇马哇路,ki咪欧卡怒西dei,依呲开ki
都雷啊路,哭哭啦哇脑西dei
昙花盛世,一夜萎落!!!…………
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发表于 2006-4-11 12:29:00 |只看该作者
天空之城的中文歌词!!!
歌曲:天空之城
歌手:swing 专辑:on fire

只脚愿你别移动
斜阳红红城墙重重
地面上万呎转动
双眼在鸟瞰地势变动
天空之中相拥升空
月亮便为爱朗颂
快乐已接近
天国看到了听到了
世上那一切万物正下沉
然而我与你会更温暖风更急
只会更抱紧一起向风洒下吻
吻我吧(再飞高)高空处
若你在居住星光的物语
星光下灯火上总不下雨
相爱令这座城内
蔷薇回来浮云回来
大地上没有障碍
深爱若冷淡便有意外
天将分开消失光彩
巨石坠落到世外
吻我吧(再飞往心底尽处)
心深处若你在居住
星光的物语(星光下灯火上总不下雨)
爱吧(再飞往心底尽处)
心深处若你在居住
星光的物语(星光下灯火上总不下雨)
吻我吧(再飞往心底尽处)
心深处若你在居住
星光的物语(星光下灯火上总不下雨)


让我们静静的感受 着首歌传达的意境
昙花盛世,一夜萎落!!!…………
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发表于 2006-7-16 21:18:32 |只看该作者

从那以后,我认为一部受欢迎的影片应该充满着真实的情感,即使那是虚幻的。通俗并且大众化,这样才能让每个人都接受,但是绝不能粗俗,必须能发人深省、引起反思,不是简单的喊出某些诺言,和被强调夸大的事物。我不喜欢迪斯尼影片,入口和出口都被设置为同样的高度和宽度,这完全是在蔑视观众啊。

呵呵呵呵呵,我也不喜欢迪斯尼影片

我渴望真实的回归...
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发表于 2007-2-9 06:41:24 |只看该作者
好长呀~~~~~~~~~~~
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发表于 2007-2-17 11:49:11 |只看该作者

做个记号慢慢看~~

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发表于 2009-8-13 21:46:12 |只看该作者
与他们(剧中人物)的执著比起来,我为自己感到非常地羞愧,哭了一整个晚上......这令我一直觉得很沮丧——思考然后忘记是件很容易的事......
这件事也叫我认识到自己原来是多么的愚蠢......我明白了,尽管说了许多不信任这个世界的话,我渴望着一个执著和纯洁的世界,尽管那只是一部廉价电影。我不能再否认,自己内心是很想肯定这个世界的。
从那以后,我开始认真思考到底应该做些什么。最终,我决定听从自己的意愿,哪怕这条路最终只是条死胡同。
如果一部电影能让能使观众从日常生活的压力及失落中解脱出来,缓解阴郁的情绪,找到意外赞赏、诚恳,或者是自己的优点,然后精神奕奕的去面对现实的生活,那么它就是一部受欢迎的电影。
我认为一部受欢迎的影片应该充满着真实的情感,即使那是虚幻的。通俗并且大众化,这样才能让每个人都接受,但是绝不能粗俗,必须能发人深省、引起反思,不是简单的喊出某些诺言,和被强调夸大的事物。我不喜欢迪斯尼影片,入口和出口都被设置为同样的高度和宽度,这完全是在蔑视观众啊。
只要你在一部动画片里倾注了爱,即使单纯的图片转换也能成为表演。它也证明了,当你在绘制的时候,只要保持一颗单纯而坚定的心,动画也能如其他形式的传媒形式一样,撞击人们的心灵。尽管剧情苍白......
产生于时代和流行的东西,不可能永恒。
缺乏信念是当前普遍存在的现象,由此繁衍出了怀疑、辞职和无政府主义。

摘一些自己喜欢的句子,MS这篇文章得以后再来看,现在很多看不懂的地方,挫......先收藏罢,呼呼.....
A natural stone、嘻嘻更jiankang
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发表于 2010-5-31 13:06:54 |只看该作者
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发表于 2011-12-30 21:23:35 |只看该作者
一张带着真实感情的画便有了自己的力量感谢翻译者的劳动
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