[原创][翻译]－宫崎骏谈《幽灵公主》

LapuTa 发表于 2005-8-11 03:16:04

宫崎骏谈《幽灵公主》 
Miyazaki talks about <CITE>Mononoke-hime</CITE>
1997.7


翻译：icytear
所有翻译均为动画爱好者交流所用，版权归原作者及所属媒体所有
翻译部分未经允许，请勿转载.

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——请您谈谈男主角阿席塔卡 

阿席塔卡不是一个快活的无忧无虑的男孩子。他的命运使他天性忧郁。我总觉得自己也是如此，可之前我一直没有以这种形象为主角创作一部电影。阿席塔卡因一个荒谬的理由被诅咒。虽然他的确做了不该做的事情——他杀了野猪神。但是从人类的角度他根本不该因此受惩罚。然而，他的确受到了如此邪恶的诅咒。我想这与现实生活中人类的命运很相似。也许厄运本身就是生活的一部分。
——那么亚克路呢(阿席塔卡骑的那只鹿) 


 我创造了亚克路大概因为画一个虚构的动物要简单一些。另外一个原因，如果我让男主角留着日式传统发型手拿日式剑骑着一匹马，那看起来就像日本武士了。那他很容易就被同戏剧中的武士形象联系起来。但那不是我想要的，我想要的是一个真正的男孩子而不是一个日本武士。
当阿席塔卡离开村子来到外面的世界，他便迷失了。这种情况下他只能对这个世界不理不睬仿佛他根本不是个人。事实上从他剪掉自己头发的那一刻起，他已不再是人类的一员。在村子里要剪掉头发时会召开一个会议，所以表面上阿席塔卡离开村子是出于自愿，其实是村里人强迫他离开。阿席塔卡这样一个男孩子甚至在市场上都不能和别人很好的沟通。他们村子所在的东北地区以前产金子，所以阿席塔卡只是把金砂当作钱，虽然他根本不知道金砂的价值。
——从服饰上看幻姬（黑帽大人）比较像女扮男装的舞姬 


是啊，我也是想塑造这样的形象。她千辛万苦才到那里，所以从她的角度看，她肯定觉得阿席塔卡所受的诅咒根本不算什么。
——她的确是历尽千辛万苦啊 


是啊，在我构思的故事中，她是一名海贼的妻子，或者类似的角色。她的愿望是建立一个她理想中的天堂。所以，她代表了20世纪的人。她有明确的目标，并能付诸行动。起码，我是这样认为的呢……（大笑）
——如果有人妨碍她呢…… 


她会毫不留情的杀戮，牺牲，甚至不惜牺牲自己。我想她就是那种人。
——那武士们和达达拉（城堡里的人称为达达拉人）的那场战争究竟如何 


这种事情相当普通。达达拉用来冲洗铁砂的水侵蚀了山川峡谷。水被导入水槽，洞穿峭壁，之后变成泥水混合物，被导入另外一个槽使铁砂逐渐沉淀下来。这个过程污染了水，把泥沙都冲到了下游地带。所以下游的村庄和河流都被泥沙堆埋。这对种田为生的人来说简直是灾难。
于是，下游的农民和达达拉人常常陷入激烈冲突。所以当地武士对达达拉的攻击根本没错，他们恰恰做对了。在那个时期，武士和农民之间并没有明显的区别（或者说一些Samurai同时也是农民）。所以随着达达拉的不断壮大，发生冲突是很自然的事情。
然而武士们说他们属于浅野将军，他们有贵族血统。所以当阿席塔卡向达达拉进发，他们便以上宾之礼对待他，就像对待一名的武士。如果他们知道阿席塔卡要去单独挑战，他们也会说：“加油！”如果见识了高超的武艺，他们会由衷的赞叹并且心想“我真是看到了好东西啊。”我希望他们是这样的男人。
我并不认为武士们是坏人，也不认为达达拉人就是好人。所以工人们吃饭那一幕我尝试加入了一些不可爱的人。虽然贾六和那个依西比亚人都受伤了，但贾六却一句话也不跟他说。
即使是像贾六一样本性善良的人也无法逃脱那个年代的社会束缚。虽然依西比亚人生性惟利是图，但是在达达拉，他们被当作没有感觉没有人格的人。
——我感觉达达拉女人那种顽强坚韧的品格正是我们在现代女性身上可以找到的。 


我不是想把它现代化，只是感觉如果把达达拉描述为男人强权的社会会很枯燥无趣。如果达达拉的统治者是男人，那他一定只能成为管理者而不是革命者。但如果是女人，即使她做同样的事情，也可以称为革命者。所以我没有把她们刻画成需要男人保护的女人或者家庭主妇。我有意的把他们从男人的世界，从家庭琐事中抽离出来。我想其实达达拉也应该有孩子，但那样事情就变得复杂了，所以我的影片中没有出现孩子。最终，那里应该会诞生很多孩子，但我希望我笔下的达达拉还没有登上那样一个舞台。
也并不是所有的达达拉人都是好人。我希望人群可以包容那些不受欢迎的人。“这个人真讨厌，我们杀了他”我不希望有这样的结局。
贾六根本不是一个很特别的人。一个普普通通的人，直到故事的结尾也没有什么英雄事迹，这是我第一次创作这样一部电影。
我创作云游僧这个人物时根本不知道片中他将扮演什么角色。他可能是幕府的密探，可能是宗教组织的党羽，也可能是一个武士，或者他可以是一个好人。最终，他的个性中融合了所有这些特点。
——我觉得他是你上面所说的各种人物的综合。 


尽管如此，他不是一个坏人。我就是希望他是这样一种形象。
——这么说这部片子中并没有一个人可以称做坏人咯 


的确如此。当你谈论植物，森林或者生态系统时，如果你确定它们是遭到坏人的破坏，那事情就简单的多。但世间之事并非如此。破坏森林的并不是那些所谓的坏人。
——人类做任何事情总有理由。 


是的。是勤劳的人们破坏了森林。在江户时代，人们植起了大片美丽的森林，但那只是因为树要用来支持Government的财政。所以有人即使仅仅砍掉了一枝树枝，他也要被砍掉胳膊甚至脑袋做惩罚。他们就是这样的保护和滋养着森林。而森林周围的农民生活实在太贫困，于是他们希望他们可以以次在这片区域里砍树。
如果我们仅仅从人类的角度讨论形势，那么森林早就不存在了。森林因如此强大的力量而生，而之后，人道主义观点和森林的繁衍之间却出现了进退两难的局面。事实上我们正面临的是全球范围的环境问题。这就人与自然关系的复杂性。那么既然这才是这部影片的大主题，我不希望它成为一个关于坏人的故事。
我感觉大约在室町时代日本人就扼杀了麒麟兽。从此，我们失去了对森林的敬畏。其实，我不知道故事是不是真的发生在室町时代，不同地区之间总有差异，但至少是从远古时代到中世纪的某个时期，人类总有一道不可逾越的鸿沟。在这个范围之内是我们的地盘，所以我们用自己的方式统治着这个属于我们的人类世界。可是越过这个界限，我们便无能为力了，即使那里杀人放火——因为那里已经不再是人类世界——那是一个世外桃源，::自::由::、安乐，远离人世间的纷扰——一个圣地——它的故事流传在历史学家Kin-ya Abe Yosihiko Amino（網野善彦）的笔下。我相信世间存在着如此的神圣。随着我们逐渐丢失了对神圣的敬畏，人类也在某种程度上放弃了对自然的崇拜。整部影片就是反映了这样一个过程。
——我们失去了那种敬畏…… 


是的……毕竟这部影片只是重现了历史上人类的足迹。麒麟兽的头颅被归还之后，大自然获得了新生。但是，森林已经变的驯服而没有杀伤力，同我们通常看到的一样。日本人一直是用这种方式重绘着日本的蓝图。
—－那么，阿桑最后的那句话…… 


那是阿席塔卡心中无法割断的一根刺。他是那种愿与荆棘为伍的人。选择了荆棘，选择了阿桑，所以我觉得阿席塔卡是21世纪人类的代表。他从不会说：“噢，我无能为力。”如果阿席塔卡说：“我会成为一名精深的生态学家”，事情就会容易的多，但事实并非如此。在我们的日常生活中，人类为保护自然所能做的事是有限的。阿席塔卡也对人类在生态系统中为了像荆棘一样存活下来的所作所为持不信任态度。与此同时，他又不能漠视那些死于饥饿的人们。于是阿席塔卡别无选择，他只能挣扎着活下来——像冲突间的荆棘一样挣扎着活下来——这也是从现在起人类唯一的道路。
——这么说，阿席塔卡不是一个典型的英雄。 


差不多。阿席塔卡最大的特点是不被期待……如果他完全被达达拉人的想法所左右，那么他会留在那里，否则便无处容身。在他的旅程中，他拯救了那些在斗争中被困的人，但没有人感谢他。他几乎总是处于作战状态但却无人关注——他只能孤军奋战。
当他跑去告诉工人们达达拉在被困，他们连一个感谢的词儿也没有，因为他们根本不知道他是如何激战的。（大笑）他们仅仅是想“啊，有人把事情告诉了我们”。阿桑似乎并不恨阿席塔卡，但她还是留下东西暗示他立刻离开。莫拉也警告他“离开大山”。阿席塔卡无家可归。
——那为什么不回到虾夷族的村庄呢 


 他不能回去。即使他回去，等待他的又能是什么？也许会被耽搁一些时间，但最终幻姬在达达拉一直创造的那个世界还是会兴起。所以如果诅咒一解除阿席塔卡就说“我要回家”，事情就根本无法解决。如果他把阿桑带回去，那更是个大问题。
——为阿席塔卡送行的卡雅深爱着他，是吗？ 


当然，虽然她叫阿席塔卡“大哥”，但那只是表示阿席塔卡在族里比她年长。
——所以他们不是亲生兄妹咯。 


如果他们是那就一点也不好玩了。在日本，近亲结婚的现象在过去很普遍。我想卡雅就有这种坚定的想法。但阿席塔卡选择了阿桑。和狼人一般命运的阿桑生活在一起一点也不希奇。这是生活。
——想问问关于剧中的关键角色——森林精灵麒麟兽的问题 


在这部片子中，麒麟兽不是那种赐福万物的温顺生灵。我把他描绘为一种低等的神。其实关于巨人的传说有很多，比如Didarabocchi， Daidarabou（巨人的名字），但我们根本不知道他们为何存在。所以，我决定：“那是自然之夜的特定生命形式”，然后再劝服我自己。（大笑）在我的想象中那些生灵总是在夜晚聚集，在夜晚释放生命。所以我才赋予它白天和黑夜不同的形貌。我只是幻想着有这样一种生灵（大笑）——它喜欢趁夜在森林中漫步……
——幻姬想要杀掉麒麟兽。她用的是什么枪啊.？ 


那个被称作火枪。真正的火枪有一根长长的杆，而且经常爆炸伤到拿枪的人。它通常是铜制的，在15世纪的明朝很常用。它在火绳枪之前传到日本。从葡萄牙传过来的Tanegashima（地名：种子岛，此处为一种铁枪的名字，因首先传入此地而得名）其实不是起源于葡萄牙，而是爪洼。在那之前，中国人已经在使用一些更原始的枪炮了。据史书记载，那些枪炮可能被用于1467-1477的应仁之乱。但那时它们的威力不足以左右战争的命运。
然而，随着人类开始使用火药，人与动物之间的实力均衡状态彻底改变。事实上，造成森林动物大量减少的最主要原因是农业。赞叹乡村美景在这时简直是人类傲慢自大的表现。根本就是农田剥夺了其他植物生存的权利。其实农田反而更像荒地——野地的生产力比农田要高。对其他物种也是如此。我们生活的时代让我不得不思考这些问题。
——那幻姬杀死麒麟兽又有何感觉呢？ 


幻姬觉得她不必立刻这么做。她认为只要他们一直打铁，只要他们逐渐侵吞森林，麒麟兽的力量就自然会被削弱，到那时，她就可以得到它。她不像是尊敬麒麟兽的人，但她必须和武士们抗争，她也知道立刻杀掉麒麟兽会造成许多意想不到的灾难。她认为树木是可以补充的，如果有必要，他们只需要再种一些树。
——云游僧从君王那里收到关于猎杀麒麟兽的信，是什么信呢？ 


那时侯人们都相信如果你要做危险的事情，只要从君王那里得到许可就可以免除灾祸。这里的“君王”不但是政治上的统治者，也是最高的宗教领袖。云游僧正是和这样一个僧侣的神秘组织有关系，他也是这个组织的成员。
——这个组织相信麒麟兽的头颅有长生不老的力量…… 


他们相信那个头颅有某种力量。人类就是这样，他们总以为奇怪的东西就有魔力，如果有什么珍奇的东西，他们就想弄到手。所以云游僧说“天地万物，尽握手中，这才是人类的本性”。他也没有否认因果报应，他说“说起诅咒，这世界本来就是一个诅咒”。他爱吃东西，当他遇到一个神秘的男孩就显出了莫大的兴趣。
——请谈谈关于让森林树木诅咒破坏他们的人的想法。 


这很有趣，不是吗？日本西部有很多关于树木诅咒的故事。这种民间传说或者我们脑海深处一些想法深深扎根于日本文化。屋久岛（位于日本南部的鹿儿岛。被称为"海上的阿尔卑斯"）,的人不砍树，他们认为砍树就会遭到诅咒——是树让他们产生这样的想法。当我去屋久岛时听说了这件事。当他们穷的没饭吃而决定砍树卖钱的时候，就会有一个僧人提出建议。并非因为某个人碰巧在岛上而又说了什么才让他们开始伐木，他们的行为是随着社会本身的变化而变迁的。
——这就意味着…… 


在过去，人们杀生的时候会很犹豫，即使杀的不是人。但是社会在变，人类也不再那么想。随着人类变的越来越强，我觉得我们已经相当的傲慢自大，我们已经失去了那种“别无选择”的悲悯感。在人类文化的本性中，我们有着贪婪的欲望，即使是靠剥夺其他生物的性命。
纯净之水流淌过的是从未有人踏足的深山老林。日本人心中长期以来都有这样一片地方。村子里住着肉眼看不见的大蛇或者其他可怕的东西——在某个时间之前我们一直这样认为。我始终坚信在深山之中有一座无人的圣殿——那是万物之源。我想日式花园就是在营造这样一个空灵、纯洁的世界。纯洁对日本人来说是最重要的。
我们不再纯洁……我对作为一个政体的日本丝毫不感兴趣。但我深深的觉得我们已经丢失了我们作为这个岛国居民的精髓…——对一直生长在这片岛屿的人们来说，那是最重要的根。
所有的一切都告诉我们这个世界不再是仅仅为了满足人类，而要包容天地万物——人类，只被允许占用世界的一个角落。
“只要我们谦卑的活着就可以与自然和平共存，而破坏自然仅仅因为我们的贪婪”——然而事情并非如此。当我们意识到即使谦卑的活着都会破坏自然，我们真的会无所适从。我想我们只有站在这样一个无所适从的角度让一切从新开始，才能真正去思考环境、自然的问题。 
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[此贴子已经被作者于2006-5-10 21:18:51编辑过]

LapuTa 发表于 2005-8-11 03:18:38

英文原文：
 
- Please tell us about the hero, Ashitaka.
Miyazaki (M): Ashitaka is not a cheerful, worry-free boy. He is a melancholy boy who has a fate. I feel that I am that way myself, but until now, I have not made a film with such a character. Ashitaka was cursed for a very absurd reason. Sure, Ashitaka did something he should not have done - killing Tatari Gami. But there was enough reason to do so from the humans' viewpoint. Nevertheless, he received a deadly curse. I think that is similar to the lives of people today. I think this is a very absurd thing that is part of life itself.
- How about Yakkul?
M: I made Yakkul because I somehow felt it would be easier to draw an imaginary animal. The other reason is that if I had a boy riding a horse with a Japanese sword and a topknot (a typical hairstyle of Japanese in period dramas), he would be a samurai. Then he would associated with the image of a samurai which existing period dramas have built. But I didn't want that. I wanted to have a boy, not a samurai boy, in the movie.
Ashitaka is at a loss as he comes into the outside world, that is, town, from his village. At this point, he is hiding his face to show that he is a non-person. Actually, at the moment he cut his topknot off, he was no longer human. Cutting one's topknot in a village has that meaning. So, it looks like Ashitaka leaves (the village) of his own will, but actually, the village forces him to leave, I think. Ashitaka, as such a boy, cannot negotiate well when he goes to the market. The Northeast area, where Ashitaka's village was, used to produce gold. So Ashitaka just offered a gold grain instead of money, not knowing the value of it.
- Judging from her attire, Eboshi looks like a Shirabyoushi (prostitutes who danced in men's attire).
M: I also have that image (about her). I think that she got there after going through considerable hardships. So from Eboshi's standpoint, she must feel that Ashitaka's karma is nothing.
- So she did go through a lot of hardships.
M: Yes. I thought up a story that she was a wife of a Wako boss (Japanese pirates/smugglers who raided the Chinese and Korean coastlines), or something like that. And what Eboshi is trying to do is to build a paradise as she thinks of it. Hence, she is a person of the 20th century. She has a clear ideal and can take action. Well, I just think so (laughs).
- And if she was interfered with...
M: She wouldn't hesitate to kill, sacrifice, or even sacrifice herself. I think that she is that kind of person. And that somehow jives with the big experiments humans conducted during the 20th century, or what socialism did.
- How about the war between the Samurai and Tatara Ba?
M: Such things were rather common. Tatara Ba eroded the valleys and mountains with water to wash out iron sands. Water is conducted through a gutter, and hits a cliff. Then, the muddy water is conducted through (another) gutter to allow the iron sands to precipitate out gradually. The process pollutes the water, and washes mud downstream. So the villages and the river downstream get buried in mud. It was a disaster for those who grew rice.
Therefore, the farmers downstream and the Tatara people were often in conflict. When the local Samurai attacked Tatara Ba, they were not doing something bad; they were doing something rightful. In that time, Samurai and farmers weren't clearly separated (i.e., some Samurai were also farmers). So it's natural to have a conflict when Tatara Ba's presence became bigger.
However, since these Samurai said they are (Samurai of) "Asano Kubo" ("Kubo" is a title for a noble high-ranking Samurai, such as a Shogun), they are (men of) noble Samurai such as Kanrei. So they treated Ashitaka honorably, as a Samurai, when he hurried to Tatara Ba. If they feel that Ashitaka is coming to meet them in single combat, they say "Come on!". When they see a great (combat) technique, they appreciate it and think, "I saw a good thing." I wanted them to be men like that.
I don't consider the Samurai as bad and the Tatara people as good. So, in the scene where the porters were eating, I tried to put several unlikable guys. Kouroku doesn't say a word to the Ishibiya guy, although they were both wounded.<a href="http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/m_on_mh.html#fn1" target="_blank" >1</A> Even a guy as good-natured as Kouroku could not be free from the social restrictions of the era. The Ishibiya people are functioning as mercenaries, but at Tatara Ba, they are not treated as people with feelings or personalities.
- I thought the strength and toughness of the women at Tatara Ba are traits we find today.
M: It's not that I wanted to make it modern. It's just that depicting Tatara Ba under the rule of men would be boring. And if I made the boss of Tatara Ba a man, he would be a manager, not a revolutionary. If it's a woman, she becomes a revolutionary, even if she is doing the same thing.
So I didn't make them women who have to be protected by men, or women in their families. I intentionally cut them off (from such things). I think that actually there were children at Tatara Ba, but it would make things complicated if I put children there, so I didn't. Eventually, many children will be born there, but I wanted to portray Tatara Ba as not yet in such a stage.
And not all the Tatara men are good guys. I wanted to make crowds that included disagreeable guys. "This is a disagreeable guy, so let's kill him" - I didn't make the end (to the story) like that.
Kouroku is not a special guy. It's the first time that I made a movie in which an ordinary guy didn't do anything heroic, right to the end.
I made the character of Jiko Bou without knowing what kind of role he would play. He could be a spy of the Muromachi government (the Samurai regime which was ruling Japan at that time), a henchman of some religious group, or a Ninja, or he could actually be a very good guy. In the end, he became a character who has all of those elements.
- I thought that he was all of what you have just said.
M: And still, he isn't a bad guy. I wanted him to be that kind of person.
- In that sense, this movie does not have what you could call a bad guy.
M: No. When you talk about plants, or an ecological system or forest, things are very easy if you decide that bad people ruined it. But that's not what humans have been doing. It's not bad people who are destroying forests.
- Humans have their own reasons to do it.
M: Yes. Hard-working people have been doing it. During the Edo era, many beautiful forests were raised, but that was because trees were planted to finance a Han (feudal domain). So if someone cut even one branch off, they cut his arm or head off. That's how they protected and raised the forest. And since the farmers around the forests were really poor, they hoped that they somehow could cut the trees in the domain.
If we had only talked about this situation from the human's side, there would have been no forest. Because of such terrible power, the forests were born. Then, there is actually a dilemma between the issue of humanism and growing a forest. It is exactly the problem of the environmental destruction we are facing on a global scale. This is the complexity in the relationship between humans and nature. And since this is a big theme of this film, I didn't want it to be a story about a bad guy.
I think that the Japanese did kill Shishi Gami around the time of the Muromachi era. And then, we stopped being in awe of forests. Well, I don't know if it was really during the Muromachi era or not, as there would certainly be regional differences, but at least from ancient times up to a certain time in the medieval period, there was a boundary beyond which humans should not enter. Within this boundary was our territory, so we ruled it as the human's world with our rules, but beyond this road, we couldn't do anything even if a crime has been committed, since it was no longer the human's world - there was such asyl (a sanctuary which is free from the common world. It is a free and peaceful domain), or a sanctum. It is written in books by Kin-ya Abe or Yosihiko Amino (both are historians). I think that there were such things. As we gradually lost the awareness of such holy things, humans somehow lost their respect for nature. This film deals with such a process in its entirety.
- We lost our awe (of such things)
M: Yes. After all, this film is just reenacting what humans have done historically. After Shishi Gami's head was returned, nature regenerated. But it has become a tame, non-frightening forest of the kind that we are accustomed to seeing. The Japanese have been remaking the Japanese landscape in this way.
- So, San's last word was...
M: It is a thorn that stuck in Ashitaka without being resolved. Ashitaka is the kind of person who is willing to live with the thorn. So, I think that Ashitaka is a person of the 21st century, who decided to live with the thorn, San. He does not say "well, I can't do anything about it."
If Ashitaka says "I'll become a deep ecologist", things are easier, but it doesn't work like that. In our daily lives, things that humans can do to protect nature are limited. And Ashitaka also has a distrust of the humans' acts to survive in the ecosystem as a thorn. And at the same time, he can not turn a blind eye to people dying from starvation. Ashitaka has no choice but to suffer and live, while being torn between such conflicts. That's the only path human beings can take from now on.

LapuTa 发表于 2005-8-11 03:18:47

- In that sense, Ashitaka is not a typical hero.
M: Rather, the biggest characteristic of Ashitaka is that no one has expectations of him. If Ashitaka is totally swayed by the way (the people of) Tatara Ba think, he could stay there, but otherwise, he has no place to stay. During his journey, he saves people who were caught in the middle of battles, but he isn't thanked. Ashitaka almost always fights when people are not watching. It's a lonely war.
When he went to notify the porters that Tatara Ba was under siege, since the porters didn't know how he fought, they didn't even say a word of thanks (laughs). They just thought that Ashitaka came to tell them. San seems not to hate Ashitaka, but she left souvenirs <a href="http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/m_on_mh.html#fn2" target="_blank" >2</A> to tell him "go now". Moro also says "leave the mountain". Ashitaka has no place to stay.
- How about going back to the Emishi's village?
M: He can't go back. Even if he could go back, what would be there? There might be some time lag, but eventually, the world of what Eboshi has been doing at Tatara Ba will come rushing in. So if Ashitaka says "I will go home" since his curse was cured, that will be no solution. And it will be a big problem if he brings San back.
- Kaya, who saw Ashitaka off, loved Ashitaka, didn't she?
M: Yes of course. She calls him "Anisama (older brother)", but it just means that he is an older boy in her clan.
- So they are not real brother and sister.
M: If they were, that wouldn't be interesting at all. There used to be a lot of marriage among blood relations in Japan. I thought of Kaya as a girl who is determined to do so (marry Ashitaka). But Ashitaka chose San. It's not strange at all to live with San, who lives with such a brutal fate. That's life.
- I would like to ask you about Shishi Gami (the Great Spirit of the Forest), who is key to this film.
M: In this film, Shishi Gami is not a gentle creature who gives blessings. I depicted it as a low-ranked god. There are legends of giants, such as Didarabocchi or Daidarabou, but we don't know why they exist. So, I just decided, "it's nature's night, given form," and then, I was able to convince myself (laughs). I just thought, the creature is gathering and giving out lives during the night. So that's why I gave it different shapes during the day and the night. I just dreamed up that it is such a creature (laughs). So, it wanders from forest to forest during the night.
- And Eboshi tries to kill Shishi Gami. What is the gun she is using?
M: It's called a "Kasou" (Ka=Fire, Sou=Spear), or "Fire Spear". In reality, it had a longer rod, and it often exploded and injured the shooter. It was often made from copper, and was used in the Ming Dynasty in the 15th century. It had been brought to Japan before matchlock guns were. The Tanegashima, the gun that was brought to Japan by the Portuguese, was not really made in Portugal. It was a gun used in Java.
Even before that, more primitive guns and cannons were used in China. There is a historical document that says they might have been used in the War of Onin (1467-1477). But they weren't powerful enough to decide the fate of the war.
However, for the power balance between humans and animals, that was decidedly changed when humans started using gun powder. Really, though, the biggest reason why mountain animals decreased so much is agriculture. It's human arrogance to say that the country scenery is beautiful. A farm basically takes away the chance to grow from other plants. It's more like barren land. The productivity of wasteland is higher than that of farmland. It's the same for other creatures. It's because of the time (we live in today) is such that I have to even think such things.
- How did Eboshi feel about killing Shishi Gami?
M: Eboshi thinks that she doesn't have to do it now. She thinks that if they continue to make iron and diminish the forest gradually, it would weaken Shishi Gami, and then, she can just take it. It's not like she respects Shishi Gami, but she has to fight against Samurai, and she knows that killing Shishi Gami right now would cause many unnecessary casualties. She thinks that trees can be replenished. She thinks that if necessary, they just have to replant the trees.
- Jiko Bou has the letter from the Emperor for the Shishi Gami hunt. What was it?
M: It was believed that when you do something dangerous, you can avoid misfortune if you have a pardon from the Emperor. The Emperor was not just the political power, but was also the highest religious figure. And Jiko Bou made a contract with a certain mysterious organization of monks. He also works as a member of the organization.
- And the organization believes that the head of Shishi Gami has the power of eternal youth.
M: They think that it has some power. Humans are like that. They think that a strange thing has power, and if it's a rare thing, they want to have it. So Jiko says "it's human nature to want everything between the heaven and the earth." Jiko does not deny human karma. He says, "Speaking of curses, this world is a curse itself." Still, he loves to eat, and shows interest when he meets a mysterious boy.
- About the idea of forests and trees cursing the humans who destroyed them.
M: It's interesting, isn't it? There are many stories about trees giving curses (Tatari) in the Western part of Japan. Such folklore, or something that goes back to our distant memories, remains strongly in Japanese culture. People on Yakushima Island didn't cut the trees. They thought that cutting trees would bring about a curse. Trees are beings that make us feel that way. I learned it when I went to Yakushima. When they decided to cut and sell trees because they were too poor to eat, there was a monk who recommended cutting the trees. It was not the case that they started cutting tress because a certain person happened to be on the island and said so, but rather to do with the changes in the society itself.
- Meaning?
M: In the past, humans hesitated when they took lives, even non-human lives. But society had changed, and they no longer felt that way. As humans grew stronger, I think that we became quite arrogant, losing the sorrow of "we have no other choice." I think that in the essence of human civilization, we have the desire to become rich without limit, by taking the lives of other creatures.
The place where pure water is running in the depth of the forest in the deep mountains, where no human has ever set foot - Japanese had long held such a place in their heart. There lived big snakes you don't see in a village, or something scary - we believed so until a certain time. I still have a feeling that there is such a holy place with no humans in the deep mountains, the source where many things are born. I think that Japanese gardens definitely try to create a holy, pure world. Purity was the most important thing for Japanese.
We have lost it. I'm not interested in Japan as a state. But I feel that we have lost our core as the people who live in this island nation. I think that it was the most important root for the people who have been living on this island.
And it leads to the idea that the world is not just for humans, but for all life, and humans are allowed to live in a corner of the world.
It's not like we can coexist with nature as long as we live humbly, and we destroy it because we become greedy. When we recognize that even living humbly destroys nature, we don't know what to do. And I think that unless we put ourselves in the place where we don't know what to do and start from there, we cannot think about environmental issues or issues concerning nature.

icytear 发表于 2005-8-11 14:06:18

我来谈谈自己的体会吧……翻译这篇的时候是在一个大雨滂沱的台风前夜……仿佛回到了当年看《幽灵公主》那种震撼……如果不是看了这篇我想很多情结我都不能理解……我把他口中的世界称为世外桃源……宫崎骏没有盾世……尽管他有如此的信念……他是如此积极的掩盖着自己消极的内心世界……让我汗颜……

卡卡发表于 2005-8-11 15:54:35

【圣斗士星矢冥王哈迪斯前章】【03-04话】[AVI][简体版]

片子我是去年看完的吧，， 
看完这部片子后两个感受： 
1，真是经典啊~~~ 
2，可惜被中文配音给废了。。。 
 
没有日文原声！！ 
中文配音把语气和气氛全给破坏了！真是………… 
唉~~~有时间还是要把日文原声的再看一边！！

acx 发表于 2005-8-11 20:46:52

我们难道不是自然的一部分！！！！！

郡主发表于 2005-8-11 21:36:57

辛苦了~
达达拉就是那理想世界啊.
[此贴子已经被作者于2005-8-11 21:38:42编辑过]

卡卡发表于 2005-8-14 15:32:29

我们难道不是自然的一部分！！！！！ 
 
 
 
正是因为我们太自然了，所以才觉得有点不自然。。。

Cecilia 发表于 2005-8-24 16:35:45

翻译得真好！表扬一下
アシタカ不是日本的武士，所以他更文雅一些。以前的日本武士虽没有アシタカ那么好，但起码有一点人性。我刚看完《四世同堂》，那里面的日本人声称自己有武士道精神，其实那是对武士道精神的歪曲，武士道精神指的是讲义气，富有正义感，不怕死（应该是吧？汗~）。我们不能不说，抗日战争是兽性的举动！
By the way，《四世同堂》真是一本好书，大家有机会一定要看！

[此贴子已经被LapuTa于2005-8-24 16:39:57编辑过]

LapuTa 发表于 2005-8-24 16:43:39

楼上的字好小，帮你编辑了呵呵 
[此贴子已经被作者于2005-8-24 16:44:05编辑过]

mulberry 发表于 2005-8-24 17:52:24

沒想到那么多我不知道的事情~~~
卡雅爱着阿席达卡..这点影片中我想是看得出來

苏菲豪尔 发表于 2005-9-26 10:19:07

首先感谢小鹅的伟大翻译!( 鼓掌) 
原来说卡雅是爱慕阿西达卡是这么一回事啊!
看到阿西达卡原来是无家可归,心底里又涌起一阵悲伤~
想起了主题曲的那句;"就像你冷峻的面孔,隐藏着悲伤和愤怒"

雲のむこぅ 发表于 2005-10-19 22:20:13

首先要感謝我们的翻译啊，太感谢拉，谢谢，辛苦拉。
现在又有一种再看一遍幽灵公主的冲动。

空儿发表于 2005-11-16 18:36:03

有这么深层的含义…
这果然是部好片子，很有内涵，寓意很深刻啊，让人觉得不可思议．

吴全真 发表于 2005-11-20 12:04:12

深刻啊!
这样的作品实在是经典中的经典啊!

pinkfog 发表于 2005-12-2 19:34:05

<IMG src="http://www.totoroclub.net/forum/Skins/default/topicface/face12.gif">
好像没有谈到阿西达卡和阿桑的关系，看过之后我觉得他们两个是互相爱慕的，对结尾我很迷惑，比较伤感。。。
<IMG src="http://www.totoroclub.net/forum/Skins/default/topicface/face3.gif">

南里发表于 2005-12-2 23:36:15

恩，说的太好了。我一直认为宫老的片子主题最深刻的就是《幽灵公主〉了，现在正在努力寻求正版。。。
老宫谈片子也谈到现在生活中了，这个感觉很现实也很深刻

飞鸟发表于 2005-12-6 23:43:56

翻译得真好！表扬一下<IMG src="http://www.totoroclub.net/forum/Skins/Default/emot/em17.gif">
アシタカ不是日本的武士，所以他更文雅一些。以前的日本武士虽没有アシタカ那么好，但起码有一点人性。我刚看完《四世同堂》，那里面的日本人声称自己有武士道精神，其实那是对武士道精神的歪曲，武士道精神指的是讲义气，富有正义感，不怕死（应该是吧？汗~）。我们不能不说，抗日战争是兽性的举动！
By the way，《四世同堂》真是一本好书，大家有机会一定要看！
=========================================
我看错了？说这个话的人不会是中国人吧？虽然我也喜欢宫的电影。
怎么能扯到抗日战争上，我想宫也不会赞成一个民族对另一个民族的侵略，杀戮。
真想抽你两巴掌！~

薪野发表于 2006-1-4 09:43:45

受益匪浅非常感谢翻译
我一直以为武士攻击塔塔镇只是单纯地因为受浅野唆使, 却没有考虑到塔塔镇为其它人类村镇带来的污染

麻褛堎 发表于 2006-1-17 21:12:44

支持一下,溜下脚印哟

Candy 发表于 2006-1-21 15:05:26

我还是那样觉得*
幽灵公主是一部很深刻的动画看了上面的帖子
我又明白了很多以前每发觉的细节
以后还得好好研究啊!!

不是有红学吗?那我们就成立一个幽学吧**呵呵~~~

heerolee 发表于 2006-4-1 12:32:37

破坏森林的并不是那些所谓的坏人。
他的话就是如此，一针见血……

鬼之魔法 发表于 2006-5-8 20:32:00

英语很厉害,
我向学习,
你可以教我吗?
要多少"栗子果"呢?

lsc00700 发表于 2006-6-19 16:42:28

真好啊~~~~~~~~
相信人类吧,毕竟是最智慧的生物

glint 发表于 2007-10-11 14:16:04

谢

翻译者辛苦了！！！你们才是真正推动中国动画发展的英雄！

牛肉干 发表于 2008-1-1 14:11:47

这么说来影片中的所有形象还是带着强烈的象征色彩的？可是从不想将宫崎骏的动画联系那么多寓意~起码我是这么看~追求一种纯净

guaiguaihome 发表于 2008-1-4 03:00:29

原帖由 Cecilia 于 2005-8-24 04:35 PM 发表 http://www.totoroclub.net/forum/images/common/back.gif
翻译得真好！表扬一下
アシタカ不是日本的武士，所以他更文雅一些。以前的日本武士虽没有アシタカ那么好，但起码有一点人性。我刚看完《四世同堂》，那里面的日本人声称自己有武士道精神，其实那是对武士 ...
楼上没问题吧？……
这种思考方式只会让人觉得你可怜。

牛肉干 发表于 2008-1-8 13:25:41

每个人都有自己的看法，楼上这位朋友又何必冷眼相对呢？
我看动画自然又我自己的视角，宫崎骏先生自己也说，他没想过自己的影片有诸如环保，反战之类的宣传意义，只想做一些孩子喜欢看的动画，“我认识到我必须制作一部只为10岁孩子的电影，那么《千与千寻》就是我的回答……”当然，他的许多动画客观上确实有宣传教育的意义，但我们也可以不从这些角度看，不是吗？还是那句话，每个人都有自己的视角。不要误会，我的这些话没有任何针对性。楼主翻译的资料真的很好，对我们深刻理解影片主旨很有帮助，真的是很珍贵的资料。
我只是很诚恳的表达自己的看法，希望不会让你生气，呵呵~

[ 本帖最后由牛肉干于 2008-1-8 13:29 编辑 ]

心灵冲击波 发表于 2008-5-5 16:59:07

请问原文出处是哪？

youxianju 发表于 2008-5-6 00:44:48

好厉害，这么宝贵的资料都弄到手了

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宫崎骏映画馆::论坛::'s Archiver

[原创][翻译]－宫崎骏谈《幽灵公主》

【圣斗士星矢冥王哈迪斯前章】【03-04话】[AVI][简体版]

谢